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Author Topic: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?  (Read 1456 times)

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princess of ptTopic starter

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Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« on: November 22, 2008, 04:10:48 PM »

So, I come across this youtube the other day.




It's a clip of some ranting about Henry Paulson by this guy Max Keiser, a financial economist out of France. Max was obviously extremely disgruntled and shared similar sentiments about Hank being a crooked fuck, just like me.

However, Max's candor was aggressive and he made some really specific accusations that I hadn't really heard from pundits or other news sources.

I got to thinking about how easy it is to point fingers and lay blame, but the things Max claimed were unnerving. I decided I would do some research on just exactly what and/or who is responsible for this madness.

I began by researching that wretched bastard Hank Paulson. There was something about that smarmy scumbag that really irked me from the first moment I saw his mug on CNN demanding 700 billion with no strings.

I found this snip on wiki answers. Granted it isn't the most reliable source of information, but it was interesting none the less.


Those member banks of the Federal Reserve are now using the funds from the bailout to buy out privately owned banks. This is in violation of the act (or law) that congress passed to allocate those funds. It is also a conflict of interest that Treasury Secretary Paulson comes from the same financial cabal that runs those member banks and the Federal Reserve.

This IS NOT CONSPIRACY THEORY. It is the subject of current congressional hearings.


See the links below re: Kucinich

Since the operations of the Federal Reserve are secret, have no active congressional oversight, and are not audited by the GAO or the IRS, there is no way to protect the economic interests of the American People.

The power to issue money is explicitly reserved to the U.S. Government by the Constitution of the United States. By abdicating this responsibility, Congress acted illegally in the creation of the Federal Reserve.

This is an important issue that every voting citizen should be aware of.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_owns_the_federal_reserve_bank

After reading this, I was like WTF?!? So, I did some more clicking and came across the gem below. It was authored and published almost 10 years ago. It's quite lengthy, but very informative. It also makes a lot of fine points quite similar to comments made in this youtube by George Carlin;




What is the Federal Reserve Bank (FED) and why do we have it?

by Greg Hobbs November 1, 1999

The FED is a central bank. Central banks are supposed to implement a country's fiscal policies. They monitor commercial banks to ensure that they maintain sufficient assets, like cash, so as to remain solvent and stable. Central banks also do business, such as currency exchanges and gold transactions, with other central banks. In theory, a central bank should be good for a country, and they might be if it wasn't for the fact that they are not owned or controlled by the government of the country they are serving. Private central banks, including our FED, operate not in the interest of the public good but for profit.

There have been three central banks in our nation's history. The first two, while deceptive and fraudulent, pale in comparison to the scope and size of the fraud being perpetrated by our current FED. What they all have in common is an insidious practice known as "fractional banking."

Fractional banking or fractional lending is the ability to create money from nothing, lend it to the government or someone else and charge interest to boot. The practice evolved before banks existed. Goldsmiths rented out space in their vaults to individuals and merchants for storage of their gold or silver. The goldsmiths gave these "depositors" a certificate that showed the amount of gold stored. These certificates were then used to conduct business.

In time the goldsmiths noticed that the gold in their vaults was rarely withdrawn. Small amounts would move in and out but the large majority never moved. Sensing a profit opportunity, the goldsmiths issued double receipts for the gold, in effect creating money (certificates) from nothing and then lending those certificates (creating debt) to depositors and charging them interest as well.

Since the certificates represented more gold than actually existed, the certificates were "fractionally" backed by gold. Eventually some of these vault operations were transformed into banks and the practice of fractional banking continued.

Keep that fractional banking concept in mind as we examine our first central bank, the First Bank of the United States (BUS). It was created, after bitter dissent in the Congress, in 1791 and chartered for 20 years. A scam not unlike the current FED, the BUS used its control of the currency to defraud the public and establish a legal form of usury.

This bank practiced fractional lending at a 10:1 rate, ten dollars of loans for each dollar they had on deposit. This misuse and abuse of their public charter continued for the entire 20 years of their existence. Public outrage over these abuses was such that the charter was not renewed and the bank ceased to exist in 1811.

The war of 1812 left the country in economic chaos, seen by bankers as another opportunity for easy profits. They influenced Congress to charter the second central bank, the Second Bank of the United States (SBUS), in 1816.

The SBUS was more expansive than the BUS. The SBUS sold franchises and literally doubled the number of banks in a short period of time. The country began to boom and move westward, which required money. Using fractional lending at the 10:1 rate, the central bank and their franchisees created the debt/money for the expansion.

Things boomed for a while, then the banks decided to shut off the debt/money, citing the need to control inflation. This action on the part of the SBUS caused bankruptcies and foreclosures. The banks then took control of the assets that were used as security against the loans.

Closely examine how the SBUS engineered this cycle of prosperity and depression. The central bank caused inflation by creating debt/money for loans and credit and making these funds readily available. The economy boomed. Then they used the inflation which they created as an excuse to shut off the loans/credit/money.

The resulting shortage of cash caused the economy to falter or slow dramatically and large numbers of business and personal bankruptcies resulted. The central bank then seized the assets used as security for the loans. The wealth created by the borrowers during the boom was then transferred to the central bank during the bust. And you always wondered how the big guys ended up with all the marbles.

Now, who do you think is responsible for all of the ups and downs in our economy over the last 85 years? Think about the depression of the late '20s and all through the '30s. The FED could have pumped lots of debt/money into the market to stimulate the economy and get the country back on track, but did they? No; in fact, they restricted the money supply quite severely. We all know the results that occurred from that action, don't we?

Why would the FED do this? During that period asset values and stocks were at rock bottom prices. Who do you think was buying everything at 10 cents on the dollar? I believe that it is referred to as consolidating the wealth. How many times have they already done this in the last 85 years?

Do you think they will do it again?

Just as an aside at this point, look at today's economy. Markets are declining. Why? Because the FED has been very liberal with its debt/credit/money. The market was hyper inflated. Who creates inflation? The FED. How does the FED deal with inflation? They restrict the debt/credit/money. What happens when they do that? The market collapses.

Several months back, after certain central banks said they would be selling large quantities of gold, the price of gold fell to a 25-year low of about $260 per ounce. The central banks then bought gold. After buying at the bottom, a group of 15 central banks announced that they would be restricting the amount of gold released into the market for the next five years. The price of gold went up $75.00 per ounce in just a few days. How many hundreds of billions of dollars did the central banks make with those two press releases?

Gold is generally considered to be a hedge against more severe economic conditions. Do you think that the private banking families that own the FED are buying or selling equities at this time? (Remember: buy low, sell high.) How much money do you think these FED owners have made since they restricted the money supply at the top of this last current cycle?

Alan Greenspan has said publicly on several occasions that he thinks the market is overvalued, or words to that effect. Just a hint that he will raise interest rates (restrict the money supply), and equity markets have a negative reaction. Governments and politicians do not rule central banks, central banks rule governments and politicians. President Andrew Jackson won the presidency in 1828 with the promise to end the national debt and eliminate the SBUS. During his second term President Jackson withdrew all government funds from the bank and on January 8, 1835, paid off the national debt. He is the only president in history to have this distinction. The charter of the SBUS expired in 1836.

Without a central bank to manipulate the supply of money, the United States experienced unprecedented growth for 60 or 70 years, and the resulting wealth was too much for bankers to endure. They had to get back into the game. So, in 1910 Senator Nelson Aldrich, then Chairman of the National Monetary Commission, in collusion with representatives of the European central banks, devised a plan to pressure and deceive Congress into enacting legislation that would covertly establish a private central bank.

This bank would assume control over the American economy by controlling the issuance of its money. After a huge public relations campaign, engineered by the foreign central banks, the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 was slipped through Congress during the Christmas recess, with many members of the Congress absent. President Woodrow Wilson, pressured by his political and financial backers, signed it on December 23, 1913.

The act created the Federal Reserve System, a name carefully selected and designed to deceive. "Federal" would lead one to believe that this is a government organization. "Reserve" would lead one to believe that the currency is being backed by gold and silver. "System" was used in lieu of the word "bank" so that one would not conclude that a new central bank had been created.

In reality, the act created a private, for profit, central banking corporation owned by a cartel of private banks. Who owns the FED? The Rothschilds of London and Berlin; Lazard Brothers of Paris; Israel Moses Seif of Italy; Kuhn, Loeb and Warburg of Germany; and the Lehman Brothers, Goldman, Sachs and the Rockefeller families of New York.

Did you know that the FED is the only for-profit corporation in America that is exempt from both federal and state taxes? The FED takes in about one trillion dollars per year tax free! The banking families listed above get all that money.

Almost everyone thinks that the money they pay in taxes goes to the US Treasury to pay for the expenses of the government. Do you want to know where your tax dollars really go? If you look at the back of any check made payable to the IRS you will see that it has been endorsed as "Pay Any F.R.B. Branch or Gen. Depository for Credit U.S. Treas. This is in Payment of U.S. Oblig." Yes, that's right, every dime you pay in income taxes is given to those private banking families, commonly known as the FED, tax free.

Like many of you, I had some difficulty with the concept of creating money from nothing. You may have heard the term "monetizing the debt," which is kind of the same thing. As an example, if the US Government wants to borrow $1 million ? the government does borrow every dollar it spends ? they go to the FED to borrow the money. The FED calls the Treasury and says print 10,000 Federal Reserve Notes (FRN) in units of one hundred dollars.

The Treasury charges the FED 2.3 cents for each note, for a total of $230 for the 10,000 FRNs. The FED then lends the $1 million to the government at face value plus interest. To add insult to injury, the government has to create a bond for $1 million as security for the loan. And the rich get richer. The above was just an example, because in reality the FED does not even print the money; it's just a computer entry in their accounting system. To put this on a more personal level, let's use another example.

Today's banks are members of the Federal Reserve Banking System. This membership makes it legal for them to create money from nothing and lend it to you. Today's banks, like the goldsmiths of old, realize that only a small fraction of the money deposited in their banks is ever actually withdrawn in the form of cash. Only about 4 percent of all the money that exists is in the form of currency. The rest of it is simply a computer entry.

Let's say you're approved to borrow $10,000 to do some home improvements. You know that the bank didn't actually take $10,000 from its pile of cash and put it into your pile? They simply went to their computer and input an entry of $10,000 into your account. They created, from thin air, a debt which you have to secure with an asset and repay with interest. The bank is allowed to create and lend as much debt as they want as long as they do not exceed the 10:1 ratio imposed by the FED.

It sort of puts a new slant on how you view your friendly bank, doesn't it? How about those loan committees that scrutinize you with a microscope before approving the loan they created from thin air. What a hoot! They make it complex for a reason. They don't want you to understand what they are doing. People fear what they do not understand. You are easier to delude and control when you are ignorant and afraid.

Now to put the frosting on this cake. When was the income tax created? If you guessed 1913, the same year that the FED was created, you get a gold star. Coincidence? What are the odds? If you are going to use the FED to create debt, who is going to repay that debt? The income tax was created to complete the illusion that real money had been lent and therefore real money had to be repaid. And you thought Houdini was good.

So, what can be done? My father taught me that you should always stand up for what is right, even if you have to stand up alone.

If "We the People" don't take some action now, there may come a time when "We the People" are no more. You should write a letter or send an email to each of your elected representatives. Many of our elected representatives do not understand the FED. Once informed they will not be able to plead ignorance and remain silent.

Article 1, Section 8 of the US Constitution specifically says that Congress is the only body that can "coin money and regulate the value thereof." The US Constitution has never been amended to allow anyone other than Congress to coin and regulate currency.

Ask your representative, in light of that information, how it is possible for the Federal Reserve Act of 1913, and the Federal Reserve Bank that it created, to be constitutional. Ask them why this private banking cartel is allowed to reap trillions of dollars in profits without paying taxes. Insist on an answer.

Thomas Jefferson said, "If the America people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currencies, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their prosperity until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

Jefferson saw it coming 150 years ago. The question is, "Can you now see what is in store for us if we allow the FED to continue controlling our country?"


"The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he breaks, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime, and the punishment of his guilt."

John P. Curran





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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2008, 05:00:21 PM »

I blame the Canadians.
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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2008, 05:45:59 PM »

I blame stupid blondes who read total bullshit on the net and swallow it hook line and sinker, french economists, pfffft, look up the nationality of nobel winners and ask why all economics lectures in france are given in English.

Britain left the Gold standard for the final time in 1926/27 when the then Chancellor Winston churchill a notorious fuck up had also had enough of it. uSA similar period.

It was decided that valuing a countries money based on how much metal you could dig out the ground was pretty dumb. The Democrats wanted to bring in a Bi-metal system in the late 1800's because there wasn't enough of it comming up out the ground to print enough notes needed in circulation(Gold/silver).

The film the Wizard of OZ is based on a critique of the bimetal system, with scarecrow the farmer, tin man, the factory worker, the lion American politicians going along the yellow/gol brick road to the Emerald city/federal reserve so the Wizard/ the head could put things right. Dorothy was the representation of American Innosense/stupidity.

Well the klondike goldrush put paid to all that alchemy. since then Fiat money has been used. Which in your cases is an official IOU from Bush. The amount they issue is supposed to be based on the present and future value of the economy, whats that precisley? Who the fuck knows but it works.

Roughly speaking Monetry growth is supposed to match the growth in the economy, that dont work very well but its goood enough as long as you dont go VC and print to much of it. If you do you dont get exposed debt as the eFrogamist claims you get HyperInflation. This intern erodes both debt and savings so everyones potluss. Its also called Seneirage, or an inflation tax were the gubberment prints loads of notes to spend, inflation takes of and makes people with savings poorer.

It all balances out in the end, poulsen is probably doing the right thing to boost the money supply so staving of risks of deflation.

Whos fault is it?
Bill clintons for getting the gubberment to underwrite subprime lending therefor removing the risk from lenders who then went lend crazy.

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princess of ptTopic starter

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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2008, 06:12:47 PM »

Mmmk. Then explain to me why Lehman Brothers just went bankrupt for over 600 Billion, yet are part of the Federal Reserve and how Goldman Sachs, also part of the Federal Reserve, actually benefited from subprime lending (Goldman Sachs former CEO...Henry Paulson)

Despite the 2007 subprime mortgage crisis, Goldman was able to profit from the collapse in subprime mortgage bonds in the summer of 2007 by selling subprime mortgage-backed securities short. Two Goldman traders, Michael Swenson and Josh Birnbaum, are credited with bearing responsibility for the firm's large profits during America's sub-prime mortgage crisis.[43] The pair, who are part of Goldman's structured products group in New York, made a profit of $4bn by "betting" on a collapse in the sub-prime market, and shorting mortgage-related securities. By summer of 2007, they persuaded colleagues to see their point of view and talked around skeptical risk management executives [44]. The firm initially avoided large subprime writedowns, and achieved a net profit due to significant losses on non-prime securitized loans being offset by gains on short mortgage positions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_Sachs

Who really owns the FED? The Rothschilds of London and Berlin; Lazard Brothers of Paris; Israel Moses Seif of Italy; Kuhn, Loeb and Warburg of Germany; and the Lehman Brothers, Goldman, Sachs and the Rockefeller families of New York.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_owns_the_federal_reserve_bank

The FED is the only for-profit corporation in America that is exempt from both federal and state taxes? The FED takes in about one trillion dollars per year tax free! The banking families listed above get all that money. Forty cents in every dollar of US taxes


The Lehman Brothers bankruptcy filing on Sept. 15 was the biggest in U.S. history, with assets of $639 billion and debt of $613 billion
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hHts3gSHE_WcIZt-IgZWwYpgmeewD94IU8801
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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2008, 06:46:00 PM »

A couple of corrections seeing its late and I'm recanting from memory.

The Cowardly lion was the US Media for not exposing the Bi-metal BS, its often sited today in a comparison with todays media for being timid and partisan.

The wizard was the ploiticians, the flim flam merchants who would sell you a fraud.

No I am not answering your dumb questions, stop reading bulshit on wikipedia. Government policy, taxation and the central bank are Macro-economics. Companies are part of Micro-economics.

sure Lehamn had assets, it bought into stuff to own but fucked up by buying to much of the wrong stuff and cooked its books. Goldman Sucks(There is so much irony here which I may return to in a few months as its sub judice), was not exposed so it went about its business buying cheap to sell high.

The fact the CB in the USA is totally independant is a different issue, if its making to much money then its up to the gubberment to regulate it properly.
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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2008, 08:17:27 PM »

Since when did you turn into Twap and become a dupe for republishing someone else's garbage? Maybe it's not a news flash for you but any clown can submit answers to Wiki Answers and Yahoo Answers and therefor in no way are they reliable to use as a primary source for anything. Especially with esoteric topics like this which few people know about. Citing it as "interesting" as the basis to make your own case or point for something doesnt make it any better.

A quick Google check shows that most of that crap is anti-jew spam by the same conspiracy theorists..

http://tinyurl.com/5vdwdt

http://tinyurl.com/6m8a94

http://tinyurl.com/6kt9j8

What was it that PT Barnum once said about suckers?

 :sad:

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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2008, 08:24:47 PM »

The reason I know about these "Esoteric" tpoics because they were university modules in economic History not economic theory. Oh and I read more than I should, then I went mad, then In the end I ended up here.
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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2008, 08:30:04 PM »

Just to clarify, my post was directed to Princess of Pleasuretown. The one who reposted the voluminous tripe from someone else to ostensibly make some kind of point.
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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2008, 08:33:06 PM »

I gathered that. thats the problem of trawling political fringes, very little stands up t o  scrutiny.
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Lrd. Greymure

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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2008, 10:33:52 PM »

Well since all of my posts were erased due to the attack on the server I shall begin again. I noticed that you want to blame Bill Clinton and Carter for the current crisis. But under Clinton unemployment was at it's lowest, he was able to balance the budget and the stock market reached it's highest point. I believe that this crisis is caused by rich CEOs who have milked this economy for all it was worth, and now fly in their private jets to beg Washington for a handout. Like I stated before if I woned a small businees and it was going under would the government bail me out? I think not.

I do not believe that President Obama will be able to repair the damage in one term nor do I believe if McCain won would he be able to fix things either. America needs to change radically such as adopting a flat tax system, socialization of medicine, socialized education and for the kicker that will make everybodies head spin twice around on their necks legalize all street drugs and tax them heavily.

My rationalization for this is that the cocaine market alone stands at $83 billion  a year of untaxed money. The drug trade has brought street crime to new levels especially in regard to crack cocaine and Meth.

93% of all this nations heroin is manufactered by in Afganistan and helps to finance the Taliban and other terrorist organizations.

America attempted to control the freedom of choice by illegalizing alcohol under the Volstead Act which helped creat organized crime and created vast wealth for those who bootlegged such as Joe Kennedy. People still drank even though it was illegal, speak easys flurrished, and today people still get high even though it is illegal. In fact, America consumes 85% of all illegal drugs manufactered and it is all untaxed.

I believe America would see a drop in street crime, gang violence etc. and would be able to pay off the National debt in five years. I believe that America would not see a jump in drug use but instead a drop in use because using drugs would lose its allure. "Forbidden fruit tastes best". Look at Holland where there resitrictions on drug use but it isn't illegal to use or posses them. In Amsterdam the only street crime is stealing bicycles.

Another benifit of legalization would be that the prisons would no longer be over populated. Up untill recently in New York under the Rockefeller Drug Laws a person could spend life in prison for possesing an ounce of marijuana. Imagine LIFE for the possesion of a weed.The annual cost per prisoner is $30,555.

As for the so-called "War on Drugs" which was declared by Reagan has cost the government so far Money Spent on the War On Drugs this Year 
 Federal $18,069,606,507
 State $27,736,890,978
 Total $295,434,974,485
 
The U.S. federal government spent over $19 billion dollars on the War on Drugs, at a rate of about $600 per second. The budget has since been increased by over a billion dollars.

And for what did that money go? DEA, Drug Zsar's office, medical expenses, legal etc. and for what progress have made? NONE for every 1 kilo of cocaine that is siezed 10 kilos get through. Imagine if the American Taxpayer had access to that kind of money.

Just a thought.
Greymure
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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2008, 01:52:08 AM »

Referencing your clinton comment. What happened during his tenure to an exstent is irrelevant. It can take 10 to 20 years for some economic policies to filter through and this is a prime example.

By ending the cap on Loans Carter created a potential bubble, nothing wrong with that I think he made the right decision, it would be during the next down turn which would reveal where the limit was.

Unfortunally events occured to sustain the bubble and just keep it growing. Onee was the boom in new technology which Clinton rode, and most other western Governments, throughout the 90's. It should have ended during the mini dip around 2001 but because Clinton had effectivley underwriten subprime loans the banks had nothing to lose so kept on lending and cooking the books.

I agree with a lot of the rest of your post.Obama is going to find it a nightmare to reform health care. When it was to a greater exstent nationalised in the UK with a high level of consensus there was still major problems, which have never really gone away.
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Persephone

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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2008, 02:21:33 AM »

I've long thought that legalizing street drugs and then taxing the shit out of them was one of our best hopes for balancing the budget and boosting the economy. I get a lot of "it will make more addicts" bullshit from a lot of people but, let's face it, people are going to use anyway. Why not benefit from it?  I think it would be safer for the drug users as well - street drugs are currently totally uncontrolled and can be cut with anything. If they were legal, that very large health problem would be eliminated.

However, I do think that a portion of the tax money gained by their legalization should be spent on treatment. Face it, there's really no such thing as "recreational crack use," and it takes a very special kind of person to want to stick needles in his or her arms just to avoid feeling. There's definitely an underlying pathology in the addicted user that needs to be addressed.  But that's for another thread, and you already knew that anyway. ::)
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Lrd. Greymure

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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2008, 07:34:02 AM »

"First of all, I don't see America having problems." --George W. Bush, interview with Bob Costas at the 2008 Olympics, Beijing, China, Aug. 10, 2008

"Its wonderful being here in the great state of Chicago" 

1. "I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport." --Washington, D.C., Oct. 3, 2001

2. "Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB--GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." --Poplar Bluff, Mo., Sept. 6, 2004

3. "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." --Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

4. "There's no doubt in my mind that we should allow the world worst leaders to hold America hostage, to threaten our peace, to threaten our friends and allies with the world's worst weapons." --South Bend, Indiana, Sept. 5, 2002.

5. "There's an old...saying in Tennessee...I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says Fool me once...(3 second pause)... Shame on...(4 second pause)...Shame on you....(6 second pause)...Fool me...Can't get fooled again." --Nashville, Tennessee, Sept. 17, 2002.

6. "See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction." --Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003

7. "The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the ---- the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." --Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003.

8 "I'm looking forward to a good night's sleep on the soil of a friend." --on visiting Denmark, Washington D.C., June 29, 2005

9. "Wow! Brazil is big." after being shown a map of Brazil by Brazilian president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, Brasilia, Brazil, Nov. 6, 2005

10. A tie between:
"Rarely is the question asked, 'Is our children learning'?"
--Florence, S.C. Jan 11 2000
"The illiteracy level of our children are appalling." --Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 20004


 I have never underestimated G.W. to me he has always been a moron. Lowest IQ of any president. What has he accomplished? Oh yeah, declared to the world the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED in Iraq. "Mission Accomplished," a phrase associated with completing a mission, is in recent years particularly associated with a sign displayed on USS Abraham Lincoln during a televised address by United States President George W. Bush on May 1, 2003.

Let me count that was um, ah, um.......5 YEARS AGO.

Now we have the "recession" that doesn't exist, nothing to fear all is well... especially if you are big bank looking for a hand out. GIVE A BREAK GW will go down in history as THE WORST president, worse then Andrew Johnson, worse then Herbert Hoover and even worse then NIXON.

Bush has done a great job: Highest unemployment rate in 10 years
Lowest stock market numbers since Reagan, Huge national debt, two illegal wars ( where were those WMDs again, I forgot? oh right THEY DIDN'T EXIST. At least he finished "The Little Ducky that Could" during the 9/11 attacks, ( I didn't know he could read) , alienated one of the greatest secretary of state Colin Powell, lowest approval rating of any president, succeeded in alienating all of America's allies around the world....I'd love to go on but my fingers ache there is so much more to cover and I just don't have the time.

Greymure
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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2008, 03:39:36 PM »

"First of all, I don't see America having problems." --George W. Bush, interview with Bob Costas at the 2008 Olympics, Beijing, China, Aug. 10, 2008

"Its wonderful being here in the great state of Chicago" 

1. "I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport." --Washington, D.C., Oct. 3, 2001

2. "Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB--GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." --Poplar Bluff, Mo., Sept. 6, 2004

3. "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." --Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

4. "There's no doubt in my mind that we should allow the world worst leaders to hold America hostage, to threaten our peace, to threaten our friends and allies with the world's worst weapons." --South Bend, Indiana, Sept. 5, 2002.

5. "There's an old...saying in Tennessee...I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says Fool me once...(3 second pause)... Shame on...(4 second pause)...Shame on you....(6 second pause)...Fool me...Can't get fooled again." --Nashville, Tennessee, Sept. 17, 2002.

6. "See, free nations are peaceful nations. Free nations don't attack each other. Free nations don't develop weapons of mass destruction." --Milwaukee, Wis., Oct. 3, 2003

7. "The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the ---- the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." --Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003.

8 "I'm looking forward to a good night's sleep on the soil of a friend." --on visiting Denmark, Washington D.C., June 29, 2005

9. "Wow! Brazil is big." after being shown a map of Brazil by Brazilian president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, Brasilia, Brazil, Nov. 6, 2005

10. A tie between:
"Rarely is the question asked, 'Is our children learning'?"
--Florence, S.C. Jan 11 2000
"The illiteracy level of our children are appalling." --Washington, D.C., Jan. 23, 20004


 I have never underestimated G.W. to me he has always been a moron. Lowest IQ of any president. What has he accomplished? Oh yeah, declared to the world the MISSION ACCOMPLISHED in Iraq. "Mission Accomplished," a phrase associated with completing a mission, is in recent years particularly associated with a sign displayed on USS Abraham Lincoln during a televised address by United States President George W. Bush on May 1, 2003.

Let me count that was um, ah, um.......5 YEARS AGO.

Now we have the "recession" that doesn't exist, nothing to fear all is well... especially if you are big bank looking for a hand out. GIVE A BREAK GW will go down in history as THE WORST president, worse then Andrew Johnson, worse then Herbert Hoover and even worse then NIXON.

Bush has done a great job: Highest unemployment rate in 10 years
Lowest stock market numbers since Reagan, Huge national debt, two illegal wars ( where were those WMDs again, I forgot? oh right THEY DIDN'T EXIST. At least he finished "The Little Ducky that Could" during the 9/11 attacks, ( I didn't know he could read) , alienated one of the greatest secretary of state Colin Powell, lowest approval rating of any president, succeeded in alienating all of America's allies around the world....I'd love to go on but my fingers ache there is so much more to cover and I just don't have the time.

Greymure
Bwahahahahahaha! He's such an idiot! :rotf:
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princess of ptTopic starter

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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2008, 10:33:41 PM »

Just to clarify, my post was directed to Princess of Pleasuretown. The one who reposted the voluminous tripe from someone else to ostensibly make some kind of point.


I resent this commentary and would send you to bed without supper if it were possible. As you can clearly see, it's a relevant topic and has generated an insightful discussion and offering such a criticism doesn't exactly encourage others to start a topical discussion. stick it in your ear buddy.  :-*

As far as my previously wiped out response goes; once I was afforded a little more time and was able to research the topic more appropriately, I reposted an excerpt from factcheck.org that seemed to put the situation in better perspective for me-

The Real Deal

So who is to blame? There's plenty of blame to go around, and it doesn't fasten only on one party or even mainly on what Washington did or didn't do. As The Economist magazine noted recently, the problem is one of "layered irresponsibility ... with hard-working homeowners and billionaire villains each playing a role." Here's a partial list of those alleged to be at fault:

The Federal Reserve, which slashed interest rates after the dot-com bubble burst, making credit cheap.

Home buyers, who took advantage of easy credit to bid up the prices of homes excessively.

Congress, which continues to support a mortgage tax deduction that gives consumers a tax incentive to buy more expensive houses.

Real estate agents, most of whom work for the sellers rather than the buyers and who earned higher commissions from selling more expensive homes.

The Clinton administration
, which pushed for less stringent credit and downpayment requirements for working- and middle-class families.

Mortgage brokers, who offered less-credit-worthy home buyers subprime, adjustable rate loans with low initial payments, but exploding interest rates.

Former Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan, who in 2004, near the peak of the housing bubble, encouraged Americans to take out adjustable rate mortgages.

Wall Street firms, who paid too little attention to the quality of the risky loans that they bundled into Mortgage Backed Securities (MBS), and issued bonds using those securities as collateral.

The Bush administration, which failed to provide needed government oversight of the increasingly dicey mortgage-backed securities market.

An obscure accounting rule called mark-to-market, which can have the paradoxical result of making assets be worth less on paper than they are in reality during times of panic.

Collective delusion, or a belief on the part of all parties that home prices would keep rising forever, no matter how high or how fast they had already gone up.

The U.S. economy is enormously complicated. Screwing it up takes a great deal of cooperation. Claiming that a single piece of legislation was responsible for (or could have averted) the crisis is just political grandstanding. We have no advice to offer on how best to solve the financial crisis. But these sorts of partisan caricatures can only make the task more difficult.






 
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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2008, 06:06:19 AM »

forget who is responsible...get a kick out of who's losing.

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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2008, 05:47:54 AM »

forget who is responsible...get a kick out of who's losing.




is this supposed to make me feel better about being fleeced out of roughly 94% of my 401k?

i knew i shouldn't have looked.

 :sad:
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Lrd. Greymure

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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2008, 10:42:16 PM »

All I know is they better fix this mess soon. I hope we don't have to wait for Obama to clean up Bush's mess or maybe we should just do away with Capitalism and look towards Marx for the answer. (I don't mean Groucho)
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princess of ptTopic starter

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Re: Just who is responsible for this economic crisis?
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2008, 11:33:42 PM »

this mess won't be fixed for at least a year. it's a communist plot.  :wink:
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