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Author Topic: The UK DNA brewhaha  (Read 3443 times)

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deBauchTopic starter

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The UK DNA brewhaha
« on: December 04, 2008, 12:50:41 PM »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/dec/04/law-genetics


So this is how it HAS worked. 

You get pulled in by the old bill, for whatever reason.  Your DNA is taken as a matter of routine just like prints and a mug shot.  It then enters the UK police national data base, one of the largest in the world.

It transpires that you've done absolutely fuck all wrong, you were busted for wearing a loud shirt in a built up area and Officer Trotter discovers that there is no law that you've broken....however, your DNA is not destroyed.




This is what has actually happened in the UK...some particularly nasty crimes have been solved with some of these DNA records that most likely wouldn't have been solved without them.  That possibility will no longer transpire with the European Court's ruling eventually leading to the police being forced to destroy them.

What are your thoughts on this ?

I'm really not into anyones human rights being broken...but...all those future murders that will go unsolved as a result of this...is this the right decision....
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2008, 03:11:25 PM »

I think they should put it in a different database labeled - not convicted people. Not only is it a good idea to solve future murders but if something were to happen to you, they could identify who you are through this database.
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2008, 03:56:53 PM »

It's all very Gattica if you ask me, but considering the benefits of keeping such a database, I can't really argue it.

Part of me thinks all DNA should be cataloged for medical purposes. Unfortunately, the likelihood of such a system being abused by whatever faction, are too high.
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2008, 04:26:23 PM »

That's absurd. What's the difference between taking a DNA swab when someone is arrested versus taking their fingerprints, mug shot and personal data?

Lots of people are arrested and never prosecuted yet no one calls for their mug shots and fingerprints to be destroyed from the police records. Equating that to a violation of "human rights" strikes at idiocy.
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2008, 04:27:12 PM »



So this is how it HAS worked. 

You get pulled in by the old bill, for whatever reason.  Your DNA is taken as a matter of routine just like prints and a mug shot.  It then enters the UK police national data base, one of the largest in the world.


It was always my understanding that if you weren't charged then your DNA sample was destroyed anyway. i'm damn sure that's what the copper told me anyhow.

Made no odds to me cos i've always been guilty as sin and have been DNA positive as they term it for 15 years.
 :sad:

DNA evidence is only usually used in serious cases so i don't see much of a problem with the police having a record of peoples DNA to help solve nasty crimes and i've got to admit, knowing mine's on record has stopped me murdering a few deserving people over the years  :vc:

BTW, now that the police in the UK use digital imaging for fingerprints and photographs these are all checked on a woldwide database held by the FBI......... Jeez ya can't get away with fuck all nowadays!!
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2008, 04:49:25 PM »

It was always my understanding that if you weren't charged then your DNA sample was destroyed anyway. i'm damn sure that's what the copper told me anyhow.

Made no odds to me cos i've always been guilty as sin and have been DNA positive as they term it for 15 years.
 :sad:

DNA evidence is only usually used in serious cases so i don't see much of a problem with the police having a record of peoples DNA to help solve nasty crimes and i've got to admit, knowing mine's on record has stopped me murdering a few deserving people over the years  :vc:

BTW, now that the police in the UK use digital imaging for fingerprints and photographs these are all checked on a woldwide database held by the FBI......... Jeez ya can't get away with fuck all nowadays!!

nice av you fekking clown!  :vc:

DNA is no different than a fingerprint anyway. If you put yourself in a position for it to be taken and filed by the authorities, then thats your own problem imho.
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2008, 05:05:07 PM »

I dont care, it will solve a lot of paternity suits in the long run, pissing of both feckles males and feminists.

Plod doesn't have my scrappings so I'm free to kill, rape and mug as much as I like as long as I'm not busted.
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2008, 06:16:34 PM »

I dont care, it will solve a lot of paternity suits in the long run, pissing of both feckles males and feminists.

Plod doesn't have my scrappings so I'm free to kill, rape and mug as much as I like as long as I'm not busted.

the advantages of keeping everyones DNA in one big database are soooo numerous, but the disadvantages are just as vast. what a shame.
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2008, 07:03:22 PM »

Such as?
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2008, 08:23:18 PM »

Such as?

Such as what? The disadvantages? Crooked people with power. Incompetent people with power. Malcontents with power. Need I say more?
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2008, 08:26:41 PM »

Well yes, how exactly are they going to missuse the Data?
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2008, 08:34:12 PM »

Well yes, how exactly are they going to missuse the Data?

To pin crimes on others, to start. Then we get into the whole sci-fi business of controlling natural selection. Haven't you ever seen Gattica!?  :rotf:
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2008, 08:45:05 PM »

Controlled natural selection is called Artificial selection. Its been around for 1,000s of years and began with domesticated wheat, then animals. Genetic Modification is just a more accurate way of doing it.

Yes ive seen Gattica, and that is just a Sc-fi movie as intelligence is more dependant on non genetic factors, like upbringing. Its just fiction.

How exactly are people going to pin crimes on people with a DNA database? what movie did you get that idea from?
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2008, 10:31:59 PM »

Controlled natural selection is called Artificial selection. Its been around for 1,000s of years and began with domesticated wheat, then animals. Genetic Modification is just a more accurate way of doing it.

yes, i'm aware. but it hasn't been done with humans...yet.

Yes ive seen Gattica, and that is just a Sc-fi movie as intelligence is more dependant on non genetic factors, like upbringing. Its just fiction.

i disagree, but thats for another thread.

How exactly are people going to pin crimes on people with a DNA database? what movie did you get that idea from?

i didn't really get it from a movie. it's not completely unreasonable to believe that people err alllll the time both unintentionally and intentionally. it's part of being human.
having everyones DNA accessible at the click of a mouse is just opening the door to lots of ways for it to be manipulated.
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2008, 07:58:22 AM »

There may be a way to manipulate data, I would like you to name one though. An example?
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deBauchTopic starter

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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2008, 01:51:59 PM »

Well yes, how exactly are they going to missuse the Data?

The problem, in the way that I see it, is that coppers are lazy fat cunts.

If we lived in an ideal world where every single police officer was a dedicated officer of the law who fastidiously did his job then there would be no worries.

The problem is that if you give the cunts a corner to cut in order to get down Dunkin Donuts that bit quicker before you know it its "chocolate dipped all round and one for the Sarge down the copshop"

Heres my concern.....

Geezer...wrongly pulled...dna taken...released uncharged...5 years later...his dna collected at a murder scene when he wasn't the murderer...Officer Bacon..."its all right lads, we've got the bleeder...see you all down Dunkin' in 10"...innocent geezer picking up soap in Wormwood Scrubs for 25 years.
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2008, 02:21:07 PM »

The problem, in the way that I see it, is that coppers are lazy fat cunts.

If we lived in an ideal world where every single police officer was a dedicated officer of the law who fastidiously did his job then there would be no worries.

The problem is that if you give the cunts a corner to cut in order to get down Dunkin Donuts that bit quicker before you know it its "chocolate dipped all round and one for the Sarge down the copshop"

Heres my concern.....

Geezer...wrongly pulled...dna taken...released uncharged...5 years later...his dna collected at a murder scene when he wasn't the murderer...Officer Bacon..."its all right lads, we've got the bleeder...see you all down Dunkin' in 10"...innocent geezer picking up soap in Wormwood Scrubs for 25 years.

ditto, minus that wormwood business and add attica.  :vc:
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2008, 02:32:49 PM »

Geezer...wrongly pulled...dna taken...released uncharged...5 years later...his dna collected at a murder scene when he wasn't the murderer...Officer Bacon..."its all right lads, we've got the bleeder...see you all down Dunkin' in 10"...innocent geezer picking up soap in Wormwood Scrubs for 25 years.

lol, only in a fictional book or movie would you see that. I mean, you can say the same thing about fingerprints, can't you?

Once collected and cataloged, the dna exists in data form. There are reports of several markers and sequencing which is what cops keep in a computer database. Just like fingerprints. I dont know if they are discarded but there is no reason to keep the samples after the sequencing is done.

Plus, if they wanted to frame to someone, it's not like a fresh dna sample is hard to get when you have access to a person or their belongings or even a discarded cigarette butt. I dont see how it could be done though. Not when there are so many loose ends that all have to fit. I think this is the natural misconception, mistrust and fear that comes with the ignorance of how a new technology works.
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2008, 02:39:31 PM »

I think this is the natural misconception, mistrust and fear that comes with the ignorance of how a new technology works.


So you're trying to say that I'm a techno-luddite  :wheelchair:
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Re: The UK DNA brewhaha
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2008, 02:50:37 PM »

lol, only in a fictional book or movie would you see that. I mean, you can say the same thing about fingerprints, can't you?

Once collected and cataloged, the dna exists in data form. There are reports of several markers and sequencing which is what cops keep in a computer database. Just like fingerprints. I dont know if they are discarded but there is no reason to keep the samples after the sequencing is done.

Plus, if they wanted to frame to someone, it's not like a fresh dna sample is hard to get when you have access to a person or their belongings or even a discarded cigarette butt. I dont see how it could be done though. Not when there are so many loose ends that all have to fit. I think this is the natural misconception, mistrust and fear that comes with the ignorance of how a new technology works.

hmmm, this makes me think about that case i discussed with you recently and how my friend was named the father of a child by a woman whom he had never even heard of, then subsequently summoned to submit his DNA and how it put quite a strain on his relationship.(BTW, it wasn't his!!!) i think i remember you telling me that kinda stuff can happen all the time and that he should just go for the test if he had nothing to worry about.

what disturbed me about the whole scenario was that some random crackhead could pick his name out of the air and he had to prove himself innocent. 
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