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Author Topic: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment  (Read 2446 times)

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princess of ptTopic starter

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"Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« on: December 04, 2008, 08:13:08 PM »

With the up and coming holidays, I thought it only appropriate to address the controversial topic of religious decor and it's roll in government.

My first point of contention is the display of religiously themed holiday decorations on the grounds of governmental institutions and how you feel about it. Personally, I think it's bullshit and has no place on public government grounds. Especially when you consider the decorations are likely purchased with tax dollars and to display a nativity or a Christmas tree is unconstitutional.   

"The First Amendment of the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that expressly prohibits the United States Congress from making laws "respecting an establishment of religion" or that prohibit the free exercise of religion, laws that infringe the freedom of speech, infringe the freedom of the press, limit the right to peaceably assemble, or limit the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

In addition to displaying holiday decorations, some of you may recall the recent high court debate specific to whether or not the ten commandments should be allowed to be displayed in the public court houses in Texas and Kentucky and a few years before that, the chief justice in Alabama losing his job over the refusal to remove a ten commandment monument he had erected at his court house. I agree that in order to keep church and state separate, religiously themed artifact should not be displayed.

Last night on Olbermann, I caught a snippet on this ass hat Bill O'really and the trouble he is stirring up for the governor of Washington state. Though I don't agree with Bill entirely, the governor has allowed an atheist sect to post a freedom from religion billboard along side other previously placed holiday decorations outside of the Capitol building and has brought this trouble on herself.

"Fox News' Bill O'Reilly had an eight-minute segment on his show Tuesday night decrying the inclusion of the atheistic billboard along with a holiday tree and a Christian nativity scene."

here is o'reallys rant if you can stomach it  ::)


I feel that nothing should be on display in front of the Capitol building, but what disturbs me more is this asshole and his argument over not giving business to establishments that say "Happy Holidays" verses "Merry Christmas". Is that not the most ludicrous thing you've ever heard? I've never wished anyone a Merry Christmas in the work setting and have always said "Happy Holidays" so as not to offend someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas (i work with A LOT of jews!)

As a person who was raised religiously, as most of you may know by now, I don't believe in any of it. It's all bunk to me. However, for the sake of the children we subscribe to the whole "Santa" deal, in that I do put up a tree and we exchange gifts and what not, but it has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus. I can't say it matters much to me how a public place is decorated, but like I said above; in order to comply with the constitutional rights of everyone, public buildings run by the government shouldn't be decorated with anything more than seasonal things that do not denote any sort of religious connotation. 
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Fipronila

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2008, 09:50:56 PM »

I don't think they should have to ban decorations all together, but like you said, nothing that is specifying any particular religion. Here in PC California public places put up "holiday" trees and on the signs on street lights, they have a different decoration for each type of holiday up. People think way too much about it. I really don't like O'Really. He's an asshat.
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Fipronila

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2008, 09:54:35 PM »

Ugh I hate him.

Sorry was just watching the video. Jerk ass. It's not a parody it's what they believe douchenozzle! It's just a sign! Like it's JUST a Tree all lit up and shit!
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princess of ptTopic starter

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2008, 10:17:10 PM »

I don't think they should have to ban decorations all together, but like you said, nothing that is specifying any particular religion. Here in PC California public places put up "holiday" trees and on the signs on street lights, they have a different decoration for each type of holiday up. People think way too much about it. I really don't like O'Really. He's an asshat.

yeah, garlands, lights, wreaths, and ribbons are all okay, but once you get into tree's, big goofy illuminated nativity sets, stars of david and that shit, it gets gaudy and out of control. i think that christmas, hanukkah, birthdays, anniversaries, etc. should be all abolished and we should just use new years as one big day of celebration where everyone exchanges gifts for the entire year. it would make things a lot easier.
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Fipronila

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2008, 10:27:38 PM »

Oh that's a good idea! My Office Manager is Jehova's Witness. I keep telling her I'm about to join her because I'm sick of all of that shit. The kids have a big themed summer party every year so they never know that they are missing out on parties and stuff. They are the most functional family I've ever met too lol.
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princess of ptTopic starter

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2008, 10:34:49 PM »

one of my secretaries is a jw! the bitch STILL takes off holidays and doesn't sign up for them!! it makes me bonkers to have to sign off on her time sheet when there is holiday pay involved!  :lmao:
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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2008, 01:40:06 AM »

100% agreed. keep your religion to yourself. believe whatever the fuck you want, but do it at home. and he's completely wrong about how we are a culturally "judeo-christian" nation. we are a vast array of cultures, thus the term "melting pot", and i for one am sick to fucking death of being hounded everywhere i go by bible-thumpers "praying for my soul" or knocking on my door to discuss "The Good Word". i swear to all that is holy, the next time some fucker steps to my doorstep and starts spewing religious doctrine theyre getting my sons supersoaker in the chest.

unless of course theyre a couple of 18 year old hotties in which case ill get a glazed look in my eye and start chanting and reciting Gongyo until they run away at which point ill drop the glazed look and leer at them as they jiggle down my driveway. ... then again, the supersoaker may come in handy there too now that i think about it. lol.
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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2008, 08:09:30 AM »

The US like the UK is a majority Christian Country so the wishes of the majority should at lleast be racognised?

for fuck sake they are not asking to indoctrinate your kids or murder your first born, its a friggin tree and some tinsel, stop being so po faced and fucking miserable the lot of you.

I am an Athiest and if someone wishes me a merry Xmas or hanuka, I am flattered as its a warm cultural complement. It isn't going to make me go off to join westboro baptist church or start bombing abortion clinics.

All countries, cultures etc have their festivities. You can join in or sit in the corner sulking, your choice.


so lighten the fuck up mmmmmmmmmmmm k?
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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2008, 10:21:01 AM »

ah yes, but remember, the UK wasnt founded in part on religious freedoms and a separation of church and state. as i recall, we split from you guys because of religious freedom among other things. i just dont see how, as a country, we can identify with any specific religion and still be constitutional about it.

ive never been irritated by someone wishing me a merry christmas just as ive never been irritated by someone having a nativity scene in their front yard. a personal belief i can respect. flaunting that belief via government offices and tax dollars i cannot. if you allow one, you must allow the rest. if you deny one, you must deny all. for a governmental institution to condone the celebration of one beliefs teachings and to turn around and deny anothers is ludicrous and it stinks of favoritism. and as PT pointed out, why the FUCK are MY tax dollars going into erecting these nativity scenes and placing blocks of marble with the 10 commandments chiseled into their face in front of courthouses?
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Cookie Monster

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2008, 11:45:04 AM »

Its not a case to allow one then allow all. I am sure most debates on TV concerning affirmative action are not joined by representatives of the KKK, Aryan Nations or the Black Panthers. Which there are stronger arguments for.

Enclusive arguments are fatuos, You could as easily argue that that christian predominance in THE USA reflects other religous predominance in other countries.

You really need to get over yourself and get a sense of perspective. If having Christian sybols up pacifies Christians  rather than stiring them up and becomming a threat to their identity so whats the problem?

You dont have religous laws, police or legal discrimination like other countries.

Do you really want to antagonise the majority of christians untill they are so wound up they take over the GOP, get in power and turn the USA into a quasi-Theocracy.

Just let it go, You have a broadly secularist country with secular laws, customs and traditions, Some money spent on customery religous symbolism once a year so whats the big problem? Why do you wish to risk stirring things up?

Learn from the jews, theres the old saying "Dont make trouble". Remeber you are a minority if not a christian and I would say as a member of a minority its fucking wonderfull as it is.

I do not feel the need to assert my secular rights over something so petty that may precipitate others asserting their majority rights.

so lay of the leftwing, showboating, disestablishment bullshit ok?
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princess of ptTopic starter

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2008, 02:36:24 PM »



Do you really want to antagonise the majority of christians untill they are so wound up they take over the GOP, get in power and turn the USA into a quasi-Theocracy.



trust me, the zealots don't need riling up to try to institute a quasi-theocracy. just look at prop 8 and the past 8 years for fucks sake .  :lol:
then look at charlie gibson interview sarah the retard and how she calls our participation in the middle east gods fucking will.

the rate of non-believers is growing according to hitchens and maher. i see no better time to seize the moment and franchise on it instead of sitting back and being complacent. complacency is what got us into this mess to begin with.

i betcha there are way more people out there who don't believe, that allow others to think they believe just to follow your "lighten up don't stir the pot" theory. is that really constitutional? is that really freedom?

what made you subscribe to atheism?
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deBauch

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2008, 02:41:26 PM »


what made you subscribe to atheism?

I'm guessing that the Holy Roman Church frowned upon gagballs and cross dressing  :no:
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princess of ptTopic starter

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2008, 02:53:11 PM »

I'm guessing that the Holy Roman Church frowned upon gagballs and cross dressing  :no:

hehehe!  :lmao: +1
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Cookie Monster

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2008, 05:17:01 PM »

trust me, the zealots don't need riling up to try to institute a quasi-theocracy. just look at prop 8 and the past 8 years for fucks sake .  :lol:
then look at charlie gibson interview sarah the retard and how she calls our participation in the middle east gods fucking will.

the rate of non-believers is growing according to hitchens and maher. i see no better time to seize the moment and franchise on it instead of sitting back and being complacent. complacency is what got us into this mess to begin with.

i betcha there are way more people out there who don't believe, that allow others to think they believe just to follow your "lighten up don't stir the pot" theory. is that really constitutional? is that really freedom?

what made you subscribe to atheism?

Contray to what one of the Hitchens brats may claim a survey a couple of years ago in The Economist showed that of those Claiming to be Christian over 40% were born again. And with all forms of religion its the converts that tend to be zealots. Thats why the GOP can now feild fucking baptist ministers who have a serious chance.

I actually like Both the Hitchens, they go out on a limb and will say what a lot of people are thinking but both have the flaw of basing what they say on big assumptions and flakey data. They are no where near out right liers like Michael Moore. Remember they always have good points to make but rarely any scientific evidence to back them up. I'm not saying that evidence is against them, its just that they tend to wonder into the areas where there is little or no evidence each way.

It all depends on how far you wish to exstend democracy beyond civil rights. Do you beleive in the absolue tyranny of the majority always or do you beleive in accomodation and compromise? Tis is one case.

Btw.

I dont cross dress, deBitch is the one with the long girly hair and ruffled shirts.
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princess of ptTopic starter

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2008, 05:28:27 PM »



 :vc:
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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2008, 05:46:06 PM »

meh :wheelchair:
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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2008, 01:50:40 PM »

I fucking detest Christmas in the first place and I have for a few decades now, so it's absolutely okey dokey with me if they ban every vestige of it in the public sector and force the religious wack jobs to keep it in the house. Deck the halls my left tit. I don't need to be inundated with glittery shiny shit from three days before Halloween all the way through the end of the goddamned year. It's ridiculous.

Having said that and knowing I won't be heard, I suppose non-religious decorations should be permitted, but public buildings are no place for nativity sets and Stars of David or any other specifically religious symbols. And if one more fucking internet-licensed half-assed preacher tells me to "Keep Christ in Christmas" I'm going to shit in his hat and pull it down over his ears. Christmas is a Christian religious celebration, which is fine if that's your thing, but that doesn't mean that I, as a non-Christian, should have to be subjected to the Baby Jesus every time I go out of my house for two months every year.
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Lrd. Greymure

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2008, 10:50:12 PM »

Its not baby Jesus really they are just plastic statues of baby Jesus don't be of afraid.
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princess of ptTopic starter

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2008, 11:24:47 PM »

Its not baby Jesus really they are just plastic statues of baby Jesus don't be of afraid.

 :lol: that just makes it all the creepier. where do they even sell those? i've never seen them in any store. is there like a plastic baby jesus catalog?

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Re: "Culture Clash" and the First Amendment
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2008, 01:07:05 PM »

:lol: that just makes it all the creepier. where do they even sell those? i've never seen them in any store. is there like a plastic baby jesus catalog?

He says WalMart has shelves and shelves.

Why am I not surprised?
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And I'll dance with you in Vienna, I'll be wearing a river's disguise. The hyacinth wild on my shoulder, my mouth on the dew of your thighs. And I'll bury my soul in a scrapbook, with the photographs there, and the moths and I'll yield to the flood of your beauty my cheap violin and my cross.
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