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Author Topic: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?  (Read 3827 times)

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Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« on: January 08, 2009, 02:35:05 AM »

Remember the early 90's, metal bands ruled the charts, singing power ballads was cool for some of you, and the longer your hair was the more pussy you got?

Then Nirvana came on the scene, made music all fucking emo and then Kurt Cobain blew his brains out.

Music has not been the same since, don't think so?

Name a band or musician since 2000 that has changed the way you think about music?

Now while you ponder that thought, this is not a thread to bury Cobain, the man was talented, I cannot deny that, but the best thing about his work was how cryptic his lyrics were, to the point were you could make them be whatever you wanted them to be. Other than that, a lot of his music is just whining about how life sucks. And people bought this shit left and right and before you know it, at the height of the "alternetive" music wave, everything on the radio was just as bad.

Pearl Jam
Soundgarden
Alice in Chains

All of those groups from that time followed what seemed to be a formula and laughed all the way to the bank, and in the process, destroyed the way we listen to new music, as there is nothing exciting any more, nothing edgy, and nothing influentual. Just human beings marketed to sell records. Britney Spears, anyone associated with American Idol, Jessica Simpson, people with a packaged image designed to sell records, tee-shirts and the like.

I remember when people were comparing Cobain to Lennon and McCartney, which is fucking absurd. Hopefully he will be remembered as the idiot who blew his brains out and took music back to the dark ages, in that order.

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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2009, 04:15:42 AM »

Cobain wasn't that talented.
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2009, 07:23:51 AM »

hmpf. good topic. yay!  :-*

imho, i think music as we knew it then was ready for a change and evolved and i want to say "simplified" naturally into what we now call grunge or 90's garbage. by no means was cobain pragmatic or dynamic enough to set out and expedite a plan to change modern music, lol!

the change wasnt forced by any means and cobain certainly didnt have any more to do with grunge than blind melon, silver chair, bush or even metallica and the role they played with eclectic metal. they were all victims of circumstance and a proverbial tipping point, from my perspective.

none of them really set out to "change" the face of music. they just did their thing and tried to sound "different". shit took its course.

if you really sit back and think long and hard about 80's pop and mainstream, there were more garbage groups and one hit wonders than you can shake a stick at as well as so many different genre's, it was almost dizzying.

it was the MTV explosion and everyone with a funny face was thrust into a video to accost our sense of hearing.

the 80's was like a gigantic hiccup, with one of those "omg, i almost threw up in my mouth" burps after consuming a smorgasbord at an international bazaar.

lets make a list of the 80's and see what really gave us the 90's, shall we?  :vc:

*you had the beginning of rap (run dmc, ll cool j)

* the ending of mellow stoners rock like the greatful dead and crosby stills and nash or southern rock like alabama

* a bunch of 70's stragglers who were trying to hold onto the scene by the skin of their teeth (think aerosmith, the stones, fleetwood mack, heart, air supply, journey, styx, boston, deep purple, chicago etc.)

*the on life support heavy metal (judas priest, iron maiden, ozzy, wasp, ac/dc etc.)

*all those fucked up hair bands that were multiplying like rabbits. (bon jovi, kiss, motley crew, ratt, gnr, warrant, poison, quiot riot, etc.)

*those bebopping chick bands or the pseudo rebellious rock chicks that were either recycling disco tunes for all the little coke sniffing harpies or advertising 16 different ways to tease your hair so you appeared a foot taller (en vogue, stansfield, gogo's, bangles, bananarama, joan jett, lita ford)

*the inexplicable hodgepodge (john cougar, duran/duran, the cars, a-ha, b52's, culture club, sex pistols, ramones, crowded house, the cure, huey lewis, etc.)

i think what really happened is the buffet table grew astronomically and the plate was so full, yet there was so much more you may or may not have wanted to put on it that everything imploded and the natural course of things was to cut out all the little fragmented deviations and to simplify shit into a limited dollar menu. (yeah, i'm gonna go make myself some toast when i'm through writing this, i'm starving!  :vc: )

in a nutshell, there were so many different sounds out there it was overwhelming and the industry simplified itself. less is more.
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2009, 08:33:03 AM »

The sex Pistols were 1970's, you forgot acid house/jungle etc began in the 80's as did the manc music, the former peaked with the progidy and chemical brothers then burnt out with fat boy slim, the manc music started well with the stone roses, inspiral carpets and the Chameleons but burnt out with oasis.

The 90's is the decade the music died, blamming it on curbain is wrong he was just a U.S.version of dirge rock pioneered by The smiths and Pink floyd before them.
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2009, 10:17:20 AM »

I like Nirvana. I like Alice in Chains better, I think Layne Staley was hugely talented and it was a fucking shame that he died the way he did. But tastes change, music changes.

As for there being nothing fresh right now? Check out Ludo, Jonathon Coulton, Against Me!... there's plenty of fresh new stuff out there, if you're willing to change the dial on your radio and look for it.
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2009, 02:37:44 PM »

I agree a lot with PoP. That was a good evaluation of the 80's =)

I think there are some good musicians still but most everything has been done which is why I tend to lean more toward mixed genres like Linkin Park. I think grunge was just the next step and there it was. I don't think it was a great as a lot of people think it is - the fucking singing off key on purpose shit drives me nuts but you all knew that already haha! I only hate that I feel like I'm turning into my parents - only listening to the old shit I already have on my ipod and not finding much new that I like.
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2009, 08:03:44 PM »

The sex Pistols were 1970's, you forgot acid house/jungle etc began in the 80's as did the manc music, the former peaked with the progidy and chemical brothers then burnt out with fat boy slim, the manc music started well with the stone roses, inspiral carpets and the Chameleons but burnt out with oasis.

The 90's is the decade the music died, blamming it on curbain is wrong he was just a U.S.version of dirge rock pioneered by The smiths and Pink floyd before them.

meh, the sex pistols were allover mtv in the 80's. especially sid vicious singing that frank sinatra tune. then came that stupid fucking movie. i didnt forget any of those other groups, i never heard of them.

wtf is manc? isnt that the term for a smurf playing a cello?
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2009, 08:06:10 PM »

I like Nirvana. I like Alice in Chains better, I think Layne Staley was hugely talented and it was a fucking shame that he died the way he did. But tastes change, music changes.

As for there being nothing fresh right now? Check out Ludo, Jonathon Coulton, Against Me!... there's plenty of fresh new stuff out there, if you're willing to change the dial on your radio and look for it.

yeah, i enjoyed grunge. i didnt wear dirty clothing or go without showering to emulate it but it spawned one of my all time favorite groups, the foo's!
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2009, 08:08:50 PM »

I agree a lot with PoP. That was a good evaluation of the 80's =)

I think there are some good musicians still but most everything has been done which is why I tend to lean more toward mixed genres like Linkin Park. I think grunge was just the next step and there it was. I don't think it was a great as a lot of people think it is - the fucking singing off key on purpose shit drives me nuts but you all knew that already haha! I only hate that I feel like I'm turning into my parents - only listening to the old shit I already have on my ipod and not finding much new that I like.

i still listen to a little bit of everything from classical to acid rock. just depends on my mood. lately ive been listening to the "coffee house" on sirius though. i love that fucking bubbly song!
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2009, 10:51:07 PM »

in a nutshell, there were so many different sounds out there it was overwhelming and the industry simplified itself. less is more.

That's amazing that you came up with that because I've always thought the music devolved as opposed to evolved when grudge hit full stride. 

But just as a side note, I was in college in the late 80's and the college scene was already loaded with industrial music.  REM, The Cure, The B-52's, Living Colour were all bands introduced to me by (faux) hippy chicks in college.  Just like the Def Leppards and Duran Duran of the early 80's, I think some music exec just noticed an under current of music like the Seattle sound, promoted it, and other execs had to get in on the action.
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2009, 12:08:38 AM »

my first year was 89. off the top of my head my cd collection  consisted of u2, rem, chili peppers, the clash, 10thousand maniacs, pink floyd, led zep, metallica, bostom, azia, journey, .38 special, toad the wet sprocket, jeff healy, guns and roses, van halen, rush, don henley, the eagles, inxes, the beatles, cheap trick, the cars, lover boy, pete frampton, robert palmer, elton john, the police/sting, steve miller, i want to say tracy chapman, but that may have been later. most of them were purchased for me by an older boyfriend, can you tell?  :rotf:

you cant really say music "devolved", it's subjective. it changed is all. and i think youre right. it was a different sound than anything else and it was darker and more melodramatic. i guess kids identified with it after sitting their asses in rehab.  :vc:

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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2009, 12:14:12 AM »

Name a band or musician since 2000 that has changed the way you think about music?


Its all been done, all of it.

Go right back to Jazz, thru Rock and Roll...60's bands, twisted by Pink Floyd, boomed by Led Zep / Deep Purple, glammed by T-Rex, Kiss, ripped up to fuck by Punk, emo'd by the new romantics and new wave, Spandau Ballet, the Cure, grunged by Nirvana, sickened by Marilyn Manson, rapped by Public Enemy, techno'd by Kraftwerk then Detroit, housed by Chicago, boy banded by Take That and those cunts that sang about an "end of a road" ?!?, gangstered by the East & West Coast, constantly popped from Madonna to Britney and now packaged by Fuckhead Idol.

Its ALL been done, there is nowhere else for it to go.

My game is dance music...it started in a warehouse in Chicago and has since become 15 variations of house music, eleventeen versions of Drum and Bass and techno has come full circle to the kind of Electro that is all the rage today that is no fucking different to shit that Bauhaus and Depeche Mode were doing in the early '80's.

Dance / Rave has had a huge run, from the late 80's until today but its completely run out of steam and is now finally dying in the arse after a 20 year run but it only got a run that long because nothing has come along to inspire its earlier death.

A lot of it has to do with the utterly comatose state of the youth. 

The fuckers just can't be arsed.  They are the most spoon fed laziest bunch of cunts to ever SIT AROUND in modern times.  None of them rebel, none of them get out on the streets to stop wars or fight for their eroded rights, its all Playstations, social networks and who's got the most gel in their fucked up emo hairstyles when they aren't at home self harming and topping themselves.

My big hope was the interfret.

I always hoped that wanker execs and A&R twats at Sony would get their mass media campaigns to tell the kids what they wanted to buy shoved back up their big money corporate arses by the real cream rising to the top on the net driven by pure people power.  This has happened to some extent and Wank Idol is a corporate reaction against that but the power of the net has yet to be fully realised...but...the main problem is, like I say, its all been fucking done like a Patpong whore on Navy day.

The only real advance in music that I can see is tech advance, sonic brain implants and shit.

 :wheelchair:

Didn't Kurt drown in a Parisian bath  :snack:
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2009, 02:21:20 AM »

Listen, anyone has an opinion about what they feel is "good" music, the point is, when the grunge scene hit, and it hit big, Cobain was seen as the driving force, and after he killed himself, grunge fucking died pretty quick. There has not been a new "scene", style, direction, how ever you want to put it, since.

And in the process the whole thought of music as art, and I do consider some musicians artists, not Cobain though, fucking died to.

I agree that possibly everything has been done, but they said that before grunge as well, now though the window for anything new and fresh is not opened for anyone.

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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2009, 05:55:30 AM »




Didn't Kurt drown in a Parisian bath  :snack:

if thats your special vernacular for blew his brains out with a shot gun while he was doped up on smack, yup.  :vc:
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2009, 06:24:09 AM »

Listen, anyone has an opinion about what they feel is "good" music, the point is, when the grunge scene hit, and it hit big, Cobain was seen as the driving force, and after he killed himself, grunge fucking died pretty quick. There has not been a new "scene", style, direction, how ever you want to put it, since.

And in the process the whole thought of music as art, and I do consider some musicians artists, not Cobain though, fucking died to.

I agree that possibly everything has been done, but they said that before grunge as well, now though the window for anything new and fresh is not opened for anyone.


i dont know who "they" is or exactly what they told you, but dont be a fucking sheep and let them think for you. there were ppl who idolized the man, it happens. he grew quite a following during his short career, but i wouldnt necessarily say grunge died with him, it just evolved into "alternative". there have been plenty of "artists" after him that i found to my liking after he shit the bed.

for one, dave grohl. i still LOVE anything he does with or without the foo's. he is an artist who can sing and play any instrument you put in front of him and play it very well.

there are plenty of groups that evolved out of grunge into alternative; like bush, stp, audio slave>chris cornell, pearl jam, phish, dave matthews, green day, blink182, linkin park, puddle of mudd, that chad kroger guys group (i cant think of the name of it) just to name a few and not necessarily in that order.

on top of those groups, followed those back to basics like john mayer, jack johnson, josh groban, and all the rest of those acoustic fucks.

none of that pop culture is really "music" as art anyway. if youre looking for music as art it's not really difficult to find, nor has it gone anywhere:

something of this caliber is only reproduced by accomplished players, it's timeless, tells a story, is thought provoking, emotional, and awe inspiring.  :wink:
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2009, 11:58:29 AM »

Everlong = Best Thing Grohl Did Since Nirvana, PERIOD. I love the acoustic version of that song.

I still think Layne Staley had the voice of an angel. And honestly, I believe that if he hadn't died when he did, Alice in Chains would likely have evolved into something more than a Seattle Grunge band; their sound was not like the rest of the Seattle sound at the time.

I'm a fan of a lot of different music, though, Goth, Industrial, Acoustic...I still love Queen, ffs. I don't really think there's any accounting for taste when it comes to any art form. Just please don't blast the rap in front of my house. I hate it when the little upper middle class white boys from down the block install systems in their cars that would rock The Meadowlands and then try to act all ghetto. Makes me want to punch them in the throat.
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2009, 07:16:44 PM »

I really do not think anyone has the power to either make or break music.  I think we like whatever music we grew up and evolved with.  I know that my taste in music has grown and expanded.  Some good, and some bad, or so my friends tell me (fuckers).  But wtf, I like what I like, and I give a rats ass what anyone says is the best or the worst.

Btw, I always view everyone's music contribution in "What are you listening to", just to see where your heads are at.... :shrug:  :rotf:
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2009, 12:18:37 PM »

You're gonna love "Re: Your Brains" and "Love Me Dead," then. ::)
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princess of pt

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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2009, 01:08:06 PM »

I really do not think anyone has the power to either make or break music.  I think we like whatever music we grew up and evolved with. 



hmmmm. those "commercial" musicians (think britney spears>tween performers, madonna, those creepy boy bands etc.) and the production companies who back them, then turn them into almost a brand as they thrust them into the spotlight and down our throats constantly, probably have more of an impact on the majority and what we actually think we "like", than we know. ya know? it's all about the marketing.
 
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Re: Did Kurt Cobain ruin music as we know it?
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2009, 01:23:26 PM »

hmmmm. those "commercial" musicians (think britney spears>tween performers, madonna, those creepy boy bands etc.) and the production companies who back them, then turn them into almost a brand as they thrust them into the spotlight and down our throats constantly, probably have more of an impact on the majority and what we actually think we "like", than we know. ya know? it's all about the marketing.

You're right, but for me, it has to do with the music and how I relate to it, not some marketing ploy.  You can play the same song 100 times, but if I'm not feeling it, I ignore it.
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