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Author Topic: Cuba  (Read 2726 times)

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deBauchTopic starter

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Cuba
« on: January 27, 2009, 06:17:49 PM »

Its about time that you cowardly Yank cunts left the little fella alone isn't it, you know, new broom sweeping and all that.

Waddayareckon ?
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thekid65

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Re: Cuba
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2009, 06:23:05 PM »

Yeah, read that on the Yahoo the other day.. Fidel is pretty much resigned to death in the next year or two, it seems. Obama gives his first TV interview not to an American station but to Islambamahmachmed TV (channel 911 on your satellite), so it wouldnt surprise me for us to cut loose of that embargo thing, and open that joint up to some American tourist dollars.

I really would appreciate a good cigar, too.
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deBauchTopic starter

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Re: Cuba
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2009, 06:30:43 PM »

Yeah, read that on the Yahoo the other day.. Fidel is pretty much resigned to death in the next year or two, it seems. Obama gives his first TV interview not to an American station but to Islambamahmachmed TV (channel 911 on your satellite), so it wouldnt surprise me for us to cut loose of that embargo thing, and open that joint up to some American tourist dollars.

I really would appreciate a good cigar, too.


Its about fucking time really, poor cunts, there's only so many times that you can re-bore the engine of a '58 Plymouth.

I've often wondered how it could sit with the people of a nation that apparently prides itself on fair play to be such a bunch of fucking bullies, picking on the little guy like that  :snack:
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thekid65

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Re: Cuba
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2009, 06:34:08 PM »

Mighta had somefuckingthing to do with this little plan that Russia had to put missiles there.....just guessing.

Yeah, we hold a grudge.
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Re: Cuba
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2009, 06:45:25 PM »

Poor kid...how little you know of history.

The Cuban Missle Crisis was a PR charade for the benefit of JFK, who was an absolute Empty Suit as a president.  They Russians were pissed we'd put missles in Turkey, which is right on their border.  So they said "fuck it" and put some missles in Cuba.

The scam is that Kennedy was the "Steely-eyed Young President" that stared the bad man Kruschev down, and Kruschev blinked.

Bullshit.

Behind the scenes we'd agreed to pull our missles out of Turkey so the Russians would take theirs out of Cuba.

Quid pro quo.

No hero president.
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Re: Cuba
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2009, 07:04:47 PM »


Its about fucking time really, poor cunts, there's only so many times that you can re-bore the engine of a '58 Plymouth.



There would be some real classic cars to be had at dirt cheap prices if they opened up Cuba
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Angelica

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Re: Cuba
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2009, 08:08:50 PM »

There would be some real classic cars to be had at dirt cheap prices if they opened up Cuba

There is a lot to be said about a country that can modify and still run those classic 1950 cars.  Resolute to the end!

I just never understood the embargo.  We stopped trade because they were Communist, yet we traded with China and Russia, the Mom and Pop of Communism.

Were we so afraid of a small island with 11 million people that we forced them to live on basic rations all their lives, or were we more afraid of the voting block that the exiled community wielded?
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Re: Cuba
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2009, 08:34:08 PM »

it's well known at this point since the classified papers have been made public that the Cuban Missile Crisis was nothing more than a PR stunt to bait the US people into backing a fraudulent war(sound familiar?...lmao)

Quote
or were we more afraid of the voting block that the exiled community wielded?
This and of course who was in cahoots with them...
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Re: Cuba
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2009, 09:06:21 PM »

Poor kid...how little you know of history.

The Cuban Missle Crisis was a PR charade for the benefit of JFK, who was an absolute Empty Suit as a president.  They Russians were pissed we'd put missles in Turkey, which is right on their border.  So they said "fuck it" and put some missles in Cuba.

The scam is that Kennedy was the "Steely-eyed Young President" that stared the bad man Kruschev down, and Kruschev blinked.

Bullshit.

Behind the scenes we'd agreed to pull our missles out of Turkey so the Russians would take theirs out of Cuba.

Quid pro quo.

No hero president.

You jackass, we had decided to take those missiles out of Turkey before the crisis and JFK still used it as a bargaining chip.  Either way, he prevented the Russians from putting nuclear missiles 90 minutes from our coast and tactical distance from DC. 
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thekid65

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Re: Cuba
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2009, 06:30:03 AM »

Just so I'm real clear on this. Both Vio and AZtucson dont believe that Russian nuclear missiles were ever in Cuba?
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Re: Cuba
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2009, 07:22:38 AM »

Quote from: thekid
Both Vio and AZtucson dont believe that Russian nuclear missiles were ever in Cuba?
Regardless, they are not there now, they have not been there for over 40 years, yet we still punish the country.  Get over it! 

As I mentioned before, we trade with every country that is communistic, socialistic, and even xenophobic.  Even better, we trade with a country we fought tooth and nail with, where we lost over 55,000 men & women; Vietnam...yet we can't deal with a country that never had a war with us, is virtually starving, and can do no harm to the US....wtf is that about?
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Re: Cuba
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2009, 07:39:27 AM »

Regardless, they are not there now, they have not been there for over 40 years, yet we still punish the country.  Get over it! 

As I mentioned before, we trade with every country that is communistic, socialistic, and even xenophobic.  Even better, we trade with a country we fought tooth and nail with, where we lost over 55,000 men & women; Vietnam...yet we can't deal with a country that never had a war with us, is virtually starving, and can do no harm to the US....wtf is that about?


Its about multi-culturalism and democracy, virtually all the Cubans let into the USA want it that way as they are anti-castro and you know how Florida plays on politicians minds?

If it was the cuban-americans hitting the streets protesting rather than the typical grubby white left liberl student arsehole whos politics doesn't stand up to the scutiny of retards, then change would be tomorrow.

That kind of retard worships cuba because its commie and in turn assumes that the main drive by govenment banning trade is because its commie. Nah its just that most exiles hate castro with a passion and see it as the right way of over throwing the junta.
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thekid65

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Re: Cuba
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 08:03:54 AM »

Regardless, they are not there now, they have not been there for over 40 years, yet we still punish the country.  Get over it! 

As I mentioned before, we trade with every country that is communistic, socialistic, and even xenophobic.  Even better, we trade with a country we fought tooth and nail with, where we lost over 55,000 men & women; Vietnam...yet we can't deal with a country that never had a war with us, is virtually starving, and can do no harm to the US....wtf is that about?

I wasnt making the argument that the embargo should stand, I was just wondering if I was reading these two correctly.

Next thing ya know, I'll be told that the Apollo 11 mission was "propaganda" too.
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Re: Cuba
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2009, 08:46:22 AM »

Regardless, they are not there now, they have not been there for over 40 years, yet we still punish the country.  Get over it! 

As I mentioned before, we trade with every country that is communistic, socialistic, and even xenophobic.  Even better, we trade with a country we fought tooth and nail with, where we lost over 55,000 men & women; Vietnam...yet we can't deal with a country that never had a war with us, is virtually starving, and can do no harm to the US....wtf is that about?

It's typical 1960's thinking that makes no sense at all. Embargoes against non-democratic governments that dont give a shit about their people and dont have to answer to them in elections almost never work. How's the embargo in North Korea going? How well did it turn out in Iraq? Libya might be the only case i can think of where it had an effect on the government policy though it wasnt communist. South Africa is a democracy.

It obviously hasnt worked in Cuba. Castro has about 15 houses, the leaders and top brass in the government have everything they need and the people are the ones who get fucked and go hungry. Basic common sense that anyone can glean by examining our policy over the past 50 years but the unenlightened conservatives who are dead set in their ways insist that we must keep the embargo going to "punish" them simply for not being a democracy.

Imagine if Nixon adopted the same embargo policy towards China in the 70's and didnt reach out to them. Where would the world be now? Probably still mired in a cold war.

As far as letting in all the anti-Castro people here, that is the worst thing they could have done to perpetuate the Castro regime. How much fucking sense does it make for Castro to get rid of these people to the US where they can do no harm and for us to take them all in like his dupe and then bar them from traveling back to the island? Just mind-numbing stupidity as far as foreign policy if we really want a regime change in Cuba. That's why he has lasted as long as he has - our Cuban foreign policy from Kennedy to Carter to Reagan to Bush 43.

All these loudmouth Cuban exiles we have in South Florida who are always talking about Castro, they should get their fat asses back to their homeland and do something about him there. Democracy aint easy. Sometimes you have to fight for it. Bunch of fucking pussies.

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Persephone

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Re: Cuba
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2009, 08:59:18 AM »

We need to end the embargo. Period. I agree with Angelica.
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Re: Cuba
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2009, 10:59:58 AM »

Just so I'm real clear on this. Both Vio and AZtucson dont believe that Russian nuclear missiles were ever in Cuba?

"Really clear"????...I imagine there's a first time for everything.

In the meantime, put the gluebag down and immediately enroll in a Remedial Reading program.

Of COURSE there were missles in Cuba!....we had fucking pictures of them!

A labored, skull-bending, tortuous, daylong re-read of my post on yer part may perchance reveal that I never denied they were there, and that I was just commenting on the miasma of pure horseshit that still persists around the event.
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Re: Cuba
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2009, 11:09:14 AM »

I was taught that the photos were of misslie silos not missiles, if you think there were missiles already in cuba provide a link please?
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AZtucson

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Re: Cuba
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2009, 11:14:25 AM »

You jackass, we had decided to take those missiles out of Turkey before the crisis and JFK still used it as a bargaining chip.  Either way, he prevented the Russians from putting nuclear missiles 90 minutes from our coast and tactical distance from DC.



Wowzer skippy?.although yer jumping to the defense of kid65 was no doubt the nadir of some fucked up homoerotic fantasy for you, and it almost brought a wistful tear to my eye with the pure beauty of such an event., yer wikipedia understanding of history
is markedly shallower than the depression on the back of yer skull.

The missles in Turkey were short range and the advent of the ICBM would make them somewhat redundant, still, we had every intent of leaving them there because overkill was the SOP of the nuclear era.

Check out this telegram from Dean Rusk in the midst of the crisis:

Washington, October 24, 1962, 11:24 a.m.
445. For Ambassadors Hare and Finletter from Secretary. Soviet reaction Cuban quarantine likely involve efforts compare missiles in Cuba with Jupiters in Turkey. While such comparison refutable, possible that negotiated solution for removal Cuban offensive threat may involve dismantling and removal Jupiters. Recognize this would create serious politico-military problems for US-Turkish relations and with regard to Turkey's place in NATO Alliance. Therefore need prepare carefully for such contingency order not harm our relations with this important ally.
Urgently request Ambassador Hare's assessment political consequences such removal under various assumptions, including outright removal, removal accompanied by stationing of Polaris submarine in area, or removal with some other significant military offset, such as seaborn multilateral nuclear force within NATO.
Ambassador Finletter also requested comment standpoint NATO aspect problem. Do not discuss with any foreigners.(1)
Rusk
1 At 2:19 p.m. on October 24 the Department of State sent a similar telegram to Rome. (Telegram 865 to Rome; ibid.) Back
Source: Department of State, Central Files, 611.3722/10-2462. Secret; Priority; Eyes Only. Drafted by Ball, cleared with Tyler and NEA, approved by Rusk. Also sent to Paris for USRO.



You still on the list to get indoor plumbing over there in North Carolina?
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thekid65

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Re: Cuba
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2009, 11:24:02 AM »

I was taught that the photos were of misslie silos not missiles, if you think there were missiles already in cuba provide a link please?


I'm assuming if Khrushchev publicly announced they were removing them, then they had to be there.

Link

"Really clear"????...I imagine there's a first time for everything.

In the meantime, put the gluebag down and immediately enroll in a Remedial Reading program.

Of COURSE there were missles in Cuba!....we had fucking pictures of them!

A labored, skull-bending, tortuous, daylong re-read of my post on yer part may perchance reveal that I never denied they were there, and that I was just commenting on the miasma of pure horseshit that still persists around the event.


I got to "PR Charade", and pretty much dismissed anything after as being irrelevant.

Where that crap (I know little of history) came from, I dont know. My statement was clear and simple, in response to deBauch when it came to why the embargo was placed.

Now, why is it still in place, ya got me...it seems as if both countries could benefit from the lifting.

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Violator

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Re: Cuba
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2009, 11:37:08 AM »

Just so I'm real clear on this. Both Vio and AZtucson dont believe that Russian nuclear missiles were ever in Cuba?
nothing has been proven either way...some said yes, others said no.  there have been reports in the news backing both sides.  The only factual reference i ever saw while in the military was the silos that where built.  I'm not saying the missiles were not there, they very well could have been.  The ironic point tho, which you need to answer for is this:

Why would it be ok for the U.S. to have a missile defense and not Cuba?

You know Kid, for a really cool guy, who seems level headed and logical, you never get off this "We are the US" and we can do what we want, but it's a fucking world wide global shitstorm if another country does the same things we do.

Please explain, why during the Cuban Missile Crisis that the United States can have a missile defense, and Cuba isn't somehow allowed?

Whether the missiles were there or not isn't the issue.  Operation Mongoose was the whole point of the crisis.  The point was more of the same shit the U.S. is doing today, which is namely trying to run others countries and dictate what they can, and cannot do. All Cuba wanted was not to be subjected to further U.S. aggression, that is: sabotage, terrorist attacks, introduction of counterrevolutionary forces, death threats and blockade.  Sound familiar?  it should, the same exact bullshit was played out in Afghanistan, then the whole WMD bullshit in Iraq, which EVERYONE knew was complete crap, but they still pretended it was true, and now you have the same thing happening again in Iran.

The main point here is that Cuba was not US territory by a legal means, they were occupied and being subjected to things that the US wasn't telling the American people.  They had every right to want to arm themselves.  You say the US has the right arm themselves and go around the world and fuck up this nation, and destroy that nation.  So why can't other nations do that also?  Why can the US have nuclear bombs, but Iran can't?  Why can the US use atomic energy, but Korea can't?  When the US is the ONLY country to ever use it on another country?  Don't you find that to be fucking absurd?

Show me exactly where it states the US has the right to dictate how the world is run...

I know, I know...next you'll tell me you haven't seen or read the released classified documents about the Cold War either, and how the US started that one... ::)

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