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Author Topic: Re: string theory/dimensional discussion  (Read 4134 times)

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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« on: January 28, 2009, 09:02:40 PM »

wow. just wow! it is thoroughly amazing to me that there are still cultures that subscribe to such religious oppression!!

i wonder how long it will take for civilization to finally move beyond religion?
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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2009, 09:16:44 PM »

wow. just wow! it is thoroughly amazing to me that there are still cultures that subscribe to such religious oppression!!

i wonder how long it will take for civilization to finally move beyond religion?

When we discover that there are really 11 dimensions as posited by string theory and that there are countless of universes beyond our incredibly vast universe that we can see or know about; or maybe when a highly advanced civilization millions of years more advanced in science than we are lands here and breaks the news that they have never heard of Jesus, Allah, Zeus or L. Ron Hubbard in anyone of the thousands of inhabited worlds that they have visted, then maybe people will start getting a clue that religion is man made.

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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2009, 09:20:54 PM »

When we discover that there are really 11 dimensions as posited by string theory and that there are countless of universes beyond our incredibly vast universe that we can see or know about; or maybe when a highly advanced civilization millions of years more advanced in science than we are lands here and breaks the news that they have never heard of Jesus, Allah, Zeus or L. Ron Hubbard in anyone of the thousands of inhabited worlds that they have visted, then maybe people will start getting a clue that religion is man made.

i dont think interdimensional contact is likely to ever occur. some theories cite that when two dimensions collide the event is catastrophic. imagine if there was no beginning and just a forever?
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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2009, 09:35:31 PM »

imagine if there was no beginning and just a forever?

I cant imagine that because all the pieces of the cosmic puzzle points to a big bang and an inflationary universe.

As far as interdimensional contact, I dont know. A two dimensional ant can move forward and backward and side to side across a plane and everything would seem like a continuous large flat surface to it.

However if it had a little help from something in the 3rd dimension which picked it up and introduced it to a whole new universe than what it could see before, the effects wouldnt necessarily be catastrophic. If it could think, it would be more in the order of - holy shit, where am I and how did i get here?

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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2009, 09:47:20 PM »

I cant imagine that because all the pieces of the cosmic puzzle points a big bang and an inflationary universe.

yes, all of our cosmic puzzle pieces would indicate as such, but in an alternate dimension would it be the same?

As far as interdimensional contact, I dont know. A two dimensional ant can move forward and backward and side to side across a plane and everything would seem like a continuous large flat surface to it.

thats where the brane membrane comes in and the bubble theory is introduced. are you really going to make me get into this here? you must know ive already been researching it for hours for something unrelated. :lol:

However if it had a little help from something in the 3rd dimension which picked it up and introduced it to a whole new universe than what it could see before, the effects wouldnt necessarily be catastrophic. If it could think, it would be more in the order of - holy shit, where am I and how did i get here?


hmpf. what would pick it up and propel it? a black hole? we already have multiple theories on the consequences of travel through the fabric of a black hole. the two dimensions would have to collide in order for something/someone to pass through. the two membranes colliding is what would be catastrophic as far as molecular supposition goes.
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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2009, 10:22:45 PM »

yes, all of our cosmic puzzle pieces would indicate as such, but in an alternate dimension would it be the same?

Good point. Of course, we have no way of knowing until we discover the dimensions.

Quote
thats where the brane membrane comes in and the bubble theory is introduced. are you really going to make me get into this here? you must know ive already been researching it for hours for something unrelated. :lol:

I dont even know what youre talking about.  :confused:
Quote
hmpf. what would pick it up and propel it? a black hole? we already have multiple theories on the consequences of travel through the fabric of a black hole. the two dimensions would have to collide in order for something/someone to pass through. the two membranes colliding is what would be catastrophic as far as molecular supposition goes.

What would pick up the ant? Anyone of us! We are three dimensional creatures. Ants are not perfectly flat so they are too but they are closer to two dimensional then three for illustrative purposes.

An ant crawling around who has never taken the direction of straight up is suddenly picked up by you, it would be a whole new universe for it. If you held it in front of you, it would be able to see a human face for the first time. Other insects like fleas that jump into the the third dimension momentarily would seem to have inexplicable disappeared and then reappeared to the ant.

The point is that there are likely to be other dimensions out there that we dont know about or cant see but it is very possible that once we have identified them that we can figure out a way to move to and from it without catastrophic results. That's where particle accelerators and Stephen Hawking come in. I think within the next few years they will be able to figure out a lot of this stuff.
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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 11:16:59 PM »

Good point. Of course, we have no way of knowing until we discover the dimensions.

consider if you will, what actually came before the "big bang" or even better, what caused the "big bang" to begin with. the molecular structure and particle concepts in one of the five parts of string theory suggest that dimensions or strings are encased in a fabric or matrix of particles similar to that of a "bubble", for lack of a better way to articulate the molecular structure involved. if two parts or "bubbles" collide, the synaptic result could quite possible create a "big bang". its reallly wicked to think about it!! 

What would pick up the ant? Anyone of us! We are three dimensional creatures. Ants are not perfectly flat so they are too but they are closer to two dimensional then three for illustrative purposes.

An ant crawling around who has never taken the direction of straight up is suddenly picked up by you, it would be a whole new universe for it. If you held it in front of you, it would be able to see a human face for the first time. Other insects like fleas that jump into the the third dimension momentarily would seem to have inexplicable disappeared and then reappeared to the ant.

oh, i wasnt interpreting what you said in a literal sense!!  :lmao:

in that respect, it would seem if we picked up an ant it may purvey an entirely new world, but given their extraneous sensory and their propensity to defy gravity i dont think a change in altitude would effect their perceptions the way it would ours if we were to successfully transcend our dimension.

The point is that there are likely to be other dimensions out there that we dont know about or cant see but it is very possible that once we have identified them that we can figure out a way to move to and from it without catastrophic results. That's where particle accelerators and Stephen Hawking come in. I think within the next few years they will be able to figure out a lot of this stuff.

jinkies, thats an ambitious outlook! you have to consider that some of our greatest theories have changed and evolved over the past 30 years. there is a colossal amount of information and understanding we have yet to develop.

sadly, as dimensional string theory or the compilation of the 5 string theories>what is now considered "m-theory" ("m" stands for mystery, magic, or matrix, hehehe!) continues to evolve and change, it is likely we wont see any serious technological advances in our lifetime, maybe just a bit more understanding of it.  :sad:

should we split this off? it has really deviated from the topic, no?  :vc:

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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 11:41:54 PM »

consider if you will, what actually came before the "big bang" or even better, what caused the "big bang" to begin with.

You could quite easily go batshitinsane thinking that one through.  Its so very much easier to come up with some white beared old dude in the sky and blame it all on him.

The large hadron collider may produce more questions than answers but I can't wait til they fire the fucker up.
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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2009, 12:04:32 AM »

consider if you will, what actually came before the "big bang" or even better, what caused the "big bang" to begin with.

That's like asking what held the Sun up back in the days when people actually thought that some heavenly god pulled it across the sky each day with a chariot or asking a first grader to do calculus.

To me, speculating about those questions is pointless in this day in age because we are still so primitive and need to learn a ton more scientific information before we can intelligently begin to tackle what happened before the big bang and understand it. We've only been doing radio astronomy for about 80 years and the universe is over 14 billion years old.


Quote
in that respect, it would seem if we picked up an ant it may purvey an entirely new world, but given their extraneous sensory and their propensity to defy gravity i dont think a change in altitude would effect their perceptions the way it would ours if we were to successfully transcend our dimension.

Sigh stop being difficult. Of course the ant isnt capable of perception like we are and altitude has nothing to do with the example.

An ant can climb a 200 ft tree or spend it's entire life going around the surface of a three dimensional balloon on top of a flag pole and it still would be stuck in what to it seems like a 2 dimensional flat plane and have no way of getting up off the surface without an external force acting on it to experience the third dimension.


Quote
jinkies, thats an ambitious outlook! you have to consider that some of our greatest theories have changed and evolved over the past 30 years. there is a colossal amount of information and understanding we have yet to develop.

sadly, as dimensional string theory or the compilation of the 5 string theories>what is now considered "m-theory" ("m" stands for mystery, magic, or matrix, hehehe!) continues to evolve and change, it is likely we wont see any serious technological advances in our lifetime, maybe just a bit more understanding of it.  :sad:

Didnt you watch the Hawking specials on the Science channel the other day? Or was it on History? Anyway, the 5 string theory has been superseded by the 11 string superstring theory a while back and about the only thing missing from it to make it more than a theory is getting quantum gravity to fit into the single unified mix at the point of the big bang.

Most scientist seem to agree that eventually they'll be able to figure it out and it's only a matter of time. That's why i mentioned particle accelerators because the new ones being developed and about to go online are going to answer lots of these questions on the subatomic level.
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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2009, 02:03:15 AM »

That's like asking what held the Sun up back in the days when people actually thought that some heavenly god pulled it across the sky each day with a chariot or asking a first grader to do calculus.

To me, speculating about those questions is pointless in this day in age because we are still so primitive and need to learn a ton more scientific information before we can intelligently begin to tackle what happened before the big bang and understand it. We've only been doing radio astronomy for about 80 years and the universe is over 14 billion years old.


i think its imperative to speculate about the origin of the big bang. its relativity to the string theory is actually quite important.

Sigh stop being difficult. Of course the ant isnt capable of perception like we are and altitude has nothing to do with the example.

An ant can climb a 200 ft tree or spend it's entire life going around the surface of a three dimensional balloon on top of a flag pole and it still would be stuck in what to it seems like a 2 dimensional flat plane and have no way of getting up off the surface without an external force acting on it to experience the third dimension.


 :vc: cant help it. i dunno why. i just enjoy getting your reaction way too much sometimes mushy.

Didnt you watch the Hawking specials on the Science channel the other day? Or was it on History? Anyway, the 5 string theory has been superseded by the 11 string superstring theory a while back and about the only thing missing from it to make it more than a theory is getting quantum gravity to fit into the single unified mix at the point of the big bang.

Most scientist seem to agree that eventually they'll be able to figure it out and it's only a matter of time. That's why i mentioned particle accelerators because the new ones being developed and about to go online are going to answer lots of these questions on the subatomic level.


yes, i watched both the stephen hawkings programs. there are many different theories on the actual string theories. the "m theory" is the 11 dimension theory that unifies the 5 string theory. the role gravity takes in the m-theory has been pretty much explained via gravitons.(see clip 3 below)





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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2009, 02:04:00 AM »

Quote
An ant can climb a 200 ft tree or spend it's entire life going around the surface of a three dimensional balloon on top of a flag pole and it still would be stuck in what to it seems like a 2 dimensional flat plane and have no way of getting up off the surface without an external force acting on it to experience the third dimension.
Exactly, the same can be said for the theory of the dimensional planes string theory predicts.  The 3 dimensional planes we operate on are considered "FLAT" in the dimensional theory, while the time dimension is curved or looped.  I do believe they also are predicting that the 3 dimensions we live in are in a state of compactification.

I also feel, just on a personal level that the added new insight concerning Dark Matter and Dark Energy will benefit the overall concept for String theory(since dark matter and gravity play hand in hand).

Very interesting theory to read on.
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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 02:09:36 AM »

Exactly, the same can be said for the theory of the dimensional planes string theory predicts.  The 3 dimensional planes we operate on are considered "FLAT" in the dimensional theory, while the time dimension is curved or looped.  I do believe they also are predicting that the 3 dimensions we live in are in a state of compactification.

I also feel, just on a personal level that the added new insight concerning Dark Matter and Dark Energy will benefit the overall concept for String theory(since dark matter and gravity play hand in hand).

Very interesting theory to read on.

i'm not sure the 3 dimensional planes are still considered flat per se, but i TOTALLY agree about dark matter and i also think anti matter will play a huge role in string theory.
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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2009, 02:17:23 AM »

i'm not sure the 3 dimensional planes are still considered flat per se, but i TOTALLY agree about dark matter and i also think anti matter will play a huge role in string theory.
Well, the articles I have been reading, tend to go with the idea that once the dimension has been compacted, it's basically like a flat guitar string(for the limited mind to understand...lol)  of course that is just another theory within the theory...

As for the anti matter/dark matter issue, that one really has me interested...i love that stuff...

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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2009, 02:18:52 AM »

I also feel, just on a personal level that the added new insight concerning Dark Matter and Dark Energy will benefit the overall concept for String theory(since dark matter and gravity play hand in hand).

Very interesting theory to read on.

I agree. It may just be that the reason we cant see dark matter and dark energy is because they are in one of those 5 or 11 or 20 dimensions that we have yet to discover.

We're so minuscule, fleeting and insignificant in the grand scheme of things as we know them right now that it's hard to even ponder another 8 dimensions that we don't even know about yet.
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princess of ptTopic starter

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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2009, 02:26:07 AM »

Well, the articles I have been reading, tend to go with the idea that once the dimension has been compacted, it's basically like a flat guitar string(for the limited mind to understand...lol)  of course that is just another theory within the theory...

As for the anti matter/dark matter issue, that one really has me interested...i love that stuff...


me too!! i am doing a little side thing and just watched a great clip where things are explained by string theorist brian greene, in a more mainstream way without the physics mumbo jumbo. you might like it.

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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2009, 02:30:22 AM »

Good stuff...thanks for the link.
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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2009, 03:05:19 AM »

i dont think interdimensional contact is likely to ever occur. some theories cite that when two dimensions collide the event is catastrophic. imagine if there was no beginning and just a forever?


"Dimensions" are fundamental building blocks of universes, not separate entities. So what you're basically saying is that somehow length for example, can suddenly go on a holiday and pop over to visit dimension X for some tea and lamingtons. Not gonna happen. The essential problem here is the free interchange of the words "dimension" for "universe", which is a common mistake in a lot of "layperson" descriptions of these theories.

After all, a dimension is part and parcel of a universe, and as such is a very specific thing and not in itself a universe of it's own, which is what some of the descriptions floating around the net seem to imply. It has it's roots in the language of science fiction, something that is more familiar to a layperson and as such tends to be used, but is in essence erroneous.

What you are talking about is the concept of universes coming into contact, and what 11 dimensional string theory has taught us, is that we as a universe are essentially a bubble, and exist in an infinitely long 11 dimensional "tube" alongside an infinite amount of other bubbles - other universes. Now these universes DO come in contact with each other all the time - they bounce against each other, and that's it. No end of times, no Ragnarok, nothing. Just happy little bubbles rippling and bouncing off each other.

To have the kind of catastrophic event you are talking about, what would have to happen is for the rippling membrane of a universe actually bursting, which is not a "dimensional" event, but a universal one.
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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2009, 04:14:41 AM »

Princess,

You might want to add in Singularity(tech and quantum)into your search stuff.  Also there is alot of talk concerning the limitations in the human brain to actually handle the physical application of 4th dimension or higher interaction.

here is one that deals with String Theory/Human Mind

http://www.wwitherspoon.org/StringTheory.htm
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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2009, 04:38:18 AM »

You could quite easily go batshitinsane thinking that one through.  Its so very much easier to come up with some white beared old dude in the sky and blame it all on him.

no shit, huh? ahahahahaha!!

The large hadron collider may produce more questions than answers but I can't wait til they fire the fucker up.

the hadron will just confirm our suspicions of alternate dimension and youre right, there will be a whole new set of fucking theories to bang out for another 30 years. its sorta like trying to catch the antimatter particle and what ensues afterward. :lmao:
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Re: string theory/dimensional discussion
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2009, 05:24:50 AM »


"Dimensions" are fundamental building blocks of universes, not separate entities. So what you're basically saying is that somehow length for example, can suddenly go on a holiday and pop over to visit dimension X for some tea and lamingtons. Not gonna happen. The essential problem here is the free interchange of the words "dimension" for "universe", which is a common mistake in a lot of "layperson" descriptions of these theories.


lol at layperson, dimension, and universe. judging by your response youre the last person who should make such an observation, ya tit. wtf does length popping over for a visit to another dimension have at all to do with the discussion?? this isnt fucking 7th grade wood shop class and we arent discussing the makings of a paper towel holder for your gram either.  :lmao:

anyway...ummm, yeah no. that isnt at all what i'm "basically saying". while some dimensions are "layers" somewhat and some have their own function, time, space, matter, etc. the 11th dimension however, is wrapped in its own brane theoretically.

which essentially indicates our "universe" would have two branes. the 11th dimension contains a multitude of parallel dimensions. those parallels are called "pea branes" (hehehe! ya gotta love physicists!) because each are wrapped in their own membranes.

maybe this will help.



After all, a dimension is part and parcel of a universe, and as such is a very specific thing and not in itself a universe of it's own, which is what some of the descriptions floating around the net seem to imply. It has it's roots in the language of science fiction, something that is more familiar to a layperson and as such tends to be used, but is in essence erroneous.


oh for fucks sake. i'm not going to quibble terminology with you. it's not only petty, it's subjective. so please, spare me your google harvested pseudo intellect rhetoric you buffoon!! "dimensional universe" is not an erroneous term derivative of science fiction, nor is it just a familiar term tossed about by "laypeople". btw, people who find need to argue over terminology, do so out of lack of knowledge and understanding for the greater point.   ::)

What you are talking about is the concept of universes coming into contact,


no, again. that isnt the concept i'm talking about. my concept involves m-theory and interdimensional contact within parallel dimensions of brane encased parallels colliding catastrophically and potentially creating what we call a "big bang".



and what 11 dimensional string theory has taught us, is that we as a universe are essentially a bubble, and exist in an infinitely long 11 dimensional "tube" alongside an infinite amount of other bubbles - other universes. Now these universes DO come in contact with each other all the time - they bounce against each other, and that's it. No end of times, no Ragnarok, nothing. Just happy little bubbles rippling and bouncing off each other.


as stated above, other "universes" contained within a dimension or "dimensional universes". what your missing from the theory is that the 11th dimension may be surrounded by its own brane.


To have the kind of catastrophic event you are talking about, what would have to happen is for the rippling membrane of a universe actually bursting, which is not a "dimensional" event, but a universal one.


sigh. pay attention please. the rippling branes bursting is not part of the equation at all. the point is what happens when two rippling membranes of extra dimension parallels collide.
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