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Author Topic: Are average Americans who lack moral ethics responsible for the recession  (Read 1811 times)

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Peter PerfectTopic starter

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It has occurred to me.. as the current financial crisis stems from American sub prime defaulters welshing on their commitments (cause it's so easy to in America), that this shit wouldn't have happened if typical Americans weren't the apathetic immoral fat lazy cunts that they are.

Am I right?   
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I think a lot of these cheapo mortgages were marketed at a vulnerable section of the population. People who desperately wanted to cling on to the idealised 'American Dream'. Americans are hardly unique in being deluded in their beliefs, that is a human trait so far as I can ascertain.

I blame equally the people who chose to exploit this unrealistic image along with those who were fool enough to believe it.

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Peter PerfectTopic starter

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I think a lot of these cheapo mortgages were marketed at a vulnerable section of the population. People who desperately wanted to cling on to the idealised 'American Dream'. Americans are hardly unique in being deluded in their beliefs, that is a human trait so far as I can ascertain.

I blame equally the people who chose to exploit this unrealistic image along with those who were fool enough to believe it.

Oh yeah!  The clever  ::) unethical Americans who exploited the apathetic immoral fat lazy dumb cunt Americans.  I forgot about them.  Weren't they the clever ones eh!
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Oh yeah!  The clever  ::) unethical Americans who exploited the apathetic immoral fat lazy dumb cunt Americans.  I forgot about them.  Weren't they the clever ones eh!

Yeah man, the Jewnited Stated. Amirite?
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Quote
this shit wouldn't have happened if typical Americans weren't the apathetic immoral fat lazy cunts that they are.
You know, as sad as it is...

I'd have to give Peter here some credit.  I do believe in large, that common American is indeed lazy and doesn't really "care" about what happens beforehand.  It's always "it's not fair", but usually afterwards and when it's to late.  And even then it usually is centered on what "they" didn't get out of it, instead of what all the people didn't get.

sad...



 
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I think a lot of these cheapo mortgages were marketed at a vulnerable section of the population. People who desperately wanted to cling on to the idealised 'American Dream'. Americans are hardly unique in being deluded in their beliefs, that is a human trait so far as I can ascertain.

I blame equally the people who chose to exploit this unrealistic image along with those who were fool enough to believe it.

You said it, brotha...end of thread.

Pete, not everyone who's defaulting is a deadbeat.  When your mortgage payments triple, it's kinda hard to keep up. 

The subprime was basically a reaction to regulation to get away from regulation.  The people who make the regulations where asleep at the switch when the financial industry was pedaling this crap.
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I agree with what Violator said. Also, people who got an adjustable rate mortgage didn't do their homework. It's like gambling, hoping you make enough money in 3 -5 years to cover a mortgage increase. Then, these same people lost their jobs because craptons of businesses are going under, so not only did their mortgage go up, their pay went way down.

Really pisses me off when I see a few of the people I know who decide they are happy not moving up because they don't want added responsibilities of becoming a manager, etc.  Some of them, if they had moved up, would be more valuable to their companies and not have been laid off when money got tight. Then again, flip side of that, some of the higest ups I know got laid off because it was more cost effective to get rid of the expensive employee. 
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You said it, brotha...end of thread.

Pete, not everyone who's defaulting is a deadbeat.

This is very true. The blame for first wave of foreclosures, IMO, rests equally with the deregulators, greedy lenders, and dumb as bat shit consumers.

We are now in a second wave of foreclosures. Most of the are 30 year fixed, not subprimes. This is being brought on by job losses causes by the first wave.
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It has occurred to me.. as the current financial crisis stems from American sub prime defaulters welshing on their commitments (cause it's so easy to in America), that this shit wouldn't have happened if typical Americans weren't the apathetic immoral fat lazy cunts that they are.

Am I right?

what exactly does being "immoral" have to do with anything? the rest i agree may have had a significant effect, americans are indeed fat lazy fucks for the most part and i can see how that might effect their defaulting on their loans in the first place, but what does morality have to do with not being financially capable of paying your mortgage when someone arbitrarily decides to triple it, in effect crucifying you? what about the morality, or lack thereof, of companies that are just itching to squeeze the very life out of you just to make an extra buck or two? further, whose vision of morality are we using? maybe its just me but that particular term tends to get my hackles up a bit. it usually has its roots in some retarded religious doctrine that is so primitive that it simply doesnt apply to todays society.
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You know, even to this day when you examine some of the business practices of banks and lending institutions, it's no wonder why this mess is as bad as it is.

Unless the homes have a significant amount of equity, foreclosures do nothing for banks. The homes become trashed and dilapidated, the property values sink and the banks get stuck paying property tax assessments, HOA fees and fines. If there is any kind of natural disaster or a someone smoking crack in the empty house sets it on fire, they assume the loss.

In spite of that they would rather go that route than to negotiate and modify the terms of the loan with willing homeowners who are caught in a bad situation. If they would just stop the foreclosures for those who are working and able to pay a reduced amount for say a year, it would be good everyone.

But no, they'd rather pay their lawyers 5 grand a pop to get people out of the homes and do things the hard way. Instead of facilitating things they make it as difficult as possible to do a loan modification. When I call to talk to their lawyers on behalf of my clients, it's like talking to a brick wall because they want to get paid and dont have any interest in less foreclosures. It makes no business sense to me and is one of the reasons why part of me rejoices when I hear about another bank shutting down. Stupid mother fuckers deserve to lose their jobs.

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LKTraz

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Re: Are average Americans who lack moral ethics responsible for the recession
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 04:13:31 PM »

Ok......

To begin with, the "sub-prime" mortgages which are the majority of toxic assets would not have entered the scene without the prodding of officials of  a past administration for banks to make mortgage loans more available to minorities and low income families.  The banks who were hesitant to comply were threatened with being branded "racist institutions" by Janet Reno and her office. (Uh gee....which administration was that?)

Barney Frank in particular supported this and told the banks that they weren't to worry because Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac would "guarantee" any questionable loans.

As it turns out, Fanny and Freddie were showing good numbers but these were the result of the exact same style of book cooking that Enron got burned for but not a fucking thing happened to Franklin Raines once this was exposed for Fanny's part.

Due to the fact that Fanny was essentially fucked, the impact of these bad loans was thrust back upon the banks who didn't want to write them in the first place.

Couple this with the fact that a great percentage of the people who were the recipients of these A.R.M.s didn't understand shit about what rate adjustment meant and another number of these folks couldn't afford ANY mortgage in the first place, the situation just turned into a giant butthurt-fest once the rates adjusted.

Were there lenders who took advantage?  Yes.  However, those were only a small percentage of the total here.

What pisses me off is that these fuckers who shouldn't have gotten a mortgage in the first place (I'm not including those who were able to pay but wound up losing income here) are looking like they're gonna get a fucking bailout!  What about folks who jumped through the hoops (credit check, down payment, closing costs, etc) to get their mortgage but have fallen into the cracks and gotten a bit behind but are making an honest effort to catch up?  Where's THEIR break?

FUCKING NOWHERE....that's where. 

So......to a degree PP did get it right.  There's just a few more contributing factors to consider.

 
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AZtucson

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Re: Are average Americans who lack moral ethics responsible for the recession
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009, 05:22:29 PM »

Ok......

To begin with, the "sub-prime" mortgages which are the majority of toxic assets would not have entered the scene without the prodding of officials of  a past administration for banks to make mortgage loans more available to minorities and low income families.  The banks who were hesitant to comply were threatened with being branded "racist institutions" by Janet Reno and her office. (Uh gee....which administration was that?)

This is complete horseshit!

Clinton didn't demands that mortgage lenders  sign into law a measure that forced lenders to quit checking if people could actually afford the fucking mortgages.  He didn't order credit default swaps that traded huge packages of shit loans.  He didn't tell the housing industry to start building McMansions and have people mortgage themselves up to their eyeballs.  He didn't tell fucking Bush he absolutely HAD to throw banking regulations out the window.

Face it.....Bush was/is an asshole who let things fall apart.

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Re: Are average Americans who lack moral ethics responsible for the recession
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2009, 05:29:53 PM »

This is complete horseshit!

Hiding your head in the sand much AZ?

Yeah....the Bush administration followed up by gutting the regs but the Clintonistas most certainly DID threaten lending institutions with that shit.
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Violator

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Re: Are average Americans who lack moral ethics responsible for the recession
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2009, 05:40:49 PM »

Quote
Clintonistas most certainly DID threaten lending institutions with that shit.
Yes he most certainly did, most namely the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act of 1933.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/wallstreet/weill/demise.html

Clinton had his hand in it, most definitely...
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Re: Are average Americans who lack moral ethics responsible for the recession
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2009, 05:42:21 PM »

Yes he most certainly did, most namely the repeal of the Glass Steagall Act of 1933.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/wallstreet/weill/demise.html

Clinton had his hand in it, most definitely...


Thank you.
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AZtucson

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Re: Are average Americans who lack moral ethics responsible for the recession
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2009, 08:26:20 PM »


Yeah....the Bush administration followed up by gutting the regs but the Clintonistas most certainly DID threaten lending institutions with that shit.


WTF did he threaten lending institutions with?

Regarding the Glass Steagall Act - what I see is an erosion of the act over a long period of time.

You never did address how Clinton caused:

Lenders to not verify or completely ignore the borrowers ability to pay ARMS that would explode on them in a short time.

Dumbfuck people to take out loans they knew they couldn't pay.



Amazingly you did get something right at the outset in regards Clinton urging (not forcing) lenders to make loans more available to lower income people.  By itself, this poses no threat to lending institutions if they give loans after verifiying income potentials.  Those are not fucking "toxic assets."  The toxic bullshit all came about when no one practiced any oversight.  Clinton did not urge/prod anyfuckingbody to make shit loans.
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Peter PerfectTopic starter

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Re: Are average Americans who lack moral ethics responsible for the recession
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2009, 10:54:19 PM »

what exactly does being "immoral" have to do with anything? the rest i agree may have had a significant effect, americans are indeed fat lazy fucks for the most part and i can see how that might effect their defaulting on their loans in the first place, but what does morality have to do with not being financially capable of paying your mortgage when someone arbitrarily decides to triple it, in effect crucifying you? what about the morality, or lack thereof, of companies that are just itching to squeeze the very life out of you just to make an extra buck or two? further, whose vision of morality are we using? maybe its just me but that particular term tends to get my hackles up a bit. it usually has its roots in some retarded religious doctrine that is so primitive that it simply doesnt apply to todays society.

People who have a well developed moral code (nothing to do with religion or sainthood) tend to be achievers rather than quitters.  If they make a commitment they go balls out to deliver it.   

Too many simply give up when the going gets tuff.  Where is the moral value in being a quitter?
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Peter PerfectTopic starter

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Re: Are average Americans who lack moral ethics responsible for the recession
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2009, 12:42:43 AM »

Yeah man, the Jewnited Stated. Amirite?

Yup  All according to protocol 23
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Re: Are average Americans who lack moral ethics responsible for the recession
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2009, 05:04:50 PM »


WTF did he threaten lending institutions with?

The Reno justice department threatened them with being labeled racist and thereby in violation of equal opportunity in lending.  This would open them to investigations that even if ruled as unfounded (which in the end would have been) WOULD have cost them business and tied them up for the duration of the investigation.




Regarding the Glass Steagall Act - what I see is an erosion of the act over a long period of time.

Fair enough BUT,  the final blow to the act was delivered under Clinton's watch.  Bush just did the final sweep under the carpet.




You never did address how Clinton caused:

Lenders to not verify or completely ignore the borrowers ability to pay ARMS that would explode on them in a short time.

Refer to the answer to the threat question.


Dumbfuck people to take out loans they knew they couldn't pay.[/color]

Simple......make money available to dumbfucks and they'll swallow hook, line and sinker every time without regard to answering the question of how they're going to repay it.



Amazingly you did get something right at the outset in regards Clinton urging (not forcing) lenders to make loans more available to lower income people.  By itself, this poses no threat to lending institutions if they give loans after verifiying income potentials.  Those are not fucking "toxic assets."  The toxic bullshit all came about when no one practiced any oversight.  Clinton did not urge/prod anyfuckingbody to make shit loans.

Again....first answer.


BTW......this mess STARTED under the Carter administration under the guise of the fledgling CRA plans and the Clintons simply expanded and implemented it.

Did Bush play a part?  Hell yes he did.  Was he the ONLY one to blame?  Fuck no.  This was a work in progress.
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