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Author Topic: The American Health system  (Read 9971 times)

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The American Health system
« on: March 08, 2009, 10:21:30 PM »

There may already be on a thread on this, cant be fucked checking.

Watched a program on the Health System in the good old USA last night.

My God. Third World is the only way I good describe what I was watching. People dieing by the thousands because they can not afford medical insurance.

People having to Que for hours for what can only be called a lottery to see if they will get free treatment.

It was fucking socking. For a country that is meant to be a world leader how the fuck can it treat its people like that. Then you had this rich cunt (multi millionaire) going on that it would be terrible if you had the British health system and waiting lists.

Are you fucking joking. I am sure those people dying from lack of medical insurance would be happy to be on a waiting list.

How many of you are going to support Obama and his drive to change your current system?
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 01:56:49 PM »

It IS a fucking joke. Especially to Americans who travel to other countries and see what it's like including at piss poor third world countries. I once traveled to Costa Rica and had a motorcycle accident there which left a gash in my arm almost to the bone.

I was taken to some "seguro sociel" (sp?) clinic where a doctor cleaned up my wound, stitched it up, bandaged it and i was on my way in about an hour. No waiting, no signing in and collecting insurance info, no eight hour wait to see a doctor in the emergency room, nothing. I don't even think they charged me for anything and I was a foreigner! If they did, it was something like $20. Pocket change.

Now, if a 3rd or 2nd world country like Costa Rica can do that, why can't we? It is obscene that this country blows 1 trillion fucking dollars killing people in made up war in Iraq but yet citizens who are sick, ill and dying and can't afford to see a doctor or buy medications to keep the alive have to suffer and die only because they can't get health care.

Why is that the case? Mainly because of politics. For the past 20 years the Republicans have fought universal health coverage at every step and have been for maintaining the status quo with scare tactics about how our heath system will cease to function as we know it.

All the while ignoring the fact that there IS NO health system for a huge number of people. That number is soaring even higher now with all the people losing their jobs and insurance. Not many people can afford to pay $700/month which is what a decent group health insurance policy costs in my state if you are male. If you are female, it's over $1,000!

The drug companies have paid lobbyists and bribed contributed hundreds of millions of dollars to politicians on both sides to prevent Americans from buying and importing cheaper drugs across the border in Canada and Mexico with tales about how they cannot insure the safety of drugs in other countries as if people in Canada are dropping dead every day from bad medications. They pretty much own Congress.

SOMETHING needs to get done and i think that it finally will get done now that Obama is President and so many people who took it for granted finally begin to see what it's like now that they're losing their jobs and coverage for their families. The next time some Republican douche bag stands up and starts to talk about the horrors of government health care, they should be tied up to an iron cross and stoned for an hour by people who don't have access to heath care.

That should be one of the most important priorities of government - insuring that everyone who needs medical attention has access to it and access to medications. Not pissing away a trillion fucking dollars in a war on the other side of the world to get rid of ONE dictator.

Take the current recession/depression to the extreme and imagine that only 30-40% of the population have insurance and can afford to see a doctor. All those people who have cancer and need chemotherapy and other life saving treatments are shit out of luck.

What kind of country would we be if that were the case? Only the rich with private insurance or those who still have a good job can get treatment while the rest can only go to an ER and wait hours and hours if they have an emergency in order to get checked out by an MD? When it comes to health care, a little socialism is a good thing.
 

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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2009, 02:23:26 PM »

The drug companies have paid lobbyists and bribed contributed hundreds of millions of dollars to politicians on both sides to prevent Americans from buying and importing cheaper drugs across the border in Canada and Mexico with tales about how they cannot insure the safety of drugs in other countries as if people in Canada are dropping dead every day from bad medications. They pretty much own Congress.

A quote from the program I watched.

America, the only country where you can take money from a stranger and not expect to do anything in return.

Now which of your politicians said that?
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2009, 04:47:21 PM »

Quote from: some rich cunt millionaire
it would be terrible if you had the British health system and waiting lists.


I've been hospitalised several times for bone breaks including 3 ops and never had anything but first class prompt treatment...same for everybody that I know.  The American insistance of huge NHS waiting lists is purely a psychological ploy imo but like C says I'd rather wait anyway.
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2009, 05:33:30 PM »

So, where's the money gonna come from to fund it? Are we going to be paying $9/gal for gas like they were in the UK last summer? 
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2009, 05:48:39 PM »

You have a trillion dollars for a pointless war and millions to bail out failing private business but no money for the people's health?
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2009, 05:51:36 PM »

Are we going to be paying $9/gal for gas like they were in the UK last summer?

Fuckin typical Yank, car first, health second  :confused:
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2009, 06:21:00 PM »

You have a trillion dollars for a pointless war and millions to bail out failing private business but no money for the people's health?

Exactly. One of the reasons why health care is so expensive in this country and an aspirin at a hospital costs $40 is because those with insurance already have to subsidize those without it. Thus, an average 2-3 stay in the hospital with no surgery gets billed at 10 to $15,000 to the insurance company who then turn around and pay about 1/5 of that to the hospital by agreement. Even at that "discount", an insured is paying for themselves and a few others with no insurance who were treated for something and kicked to the curb as soon they could walk again.

If everyone were covered by either private insurance or government insurance like Congress has, then the health care costs would be dramatically lower because hospitals wouldnt have to overbill to make up for the uninsured.

The same result if Congress would stop taking bribes from the drug companies, allow people to import prescription medications from other countries and control the prices that they can charge for medications or limit the amount of time they have for an exclusive patent so that generic medications can enter the market quicker.

There is a better way to balance these things out between the interests of hospitals and drug companies and the interests of citizens and patients. Right now, everything is in favor of the drug companies and to an extent, the insurance companies.

And if we managed to come up with a cool trillion dollars to bring democracy for a few of years to Iraq until the next dictator comes to power, I think we should be able to spend AT LEAST the same amount to take care of our own people.
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2009, 06:23:51 PM »

Fuckin typical Yank, car first, health second  :confused:

Mine and my families health is covered, it's this thing called insurance, and I pay for it, out of my salary, that I work very hard for. What I'd object to is having to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes to pay for some lazy fuck that wont go out an get a job (todays economy not withstanding). I spose thats OK for you Brits, being the generous lot that you are.
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2009, 06:31:10 PM »

You have a trillion dollars for a pointless war and millions to bail out failing private business but no money for the people's health?

Ya know.. fuck the war, and that lame-ass argument. There was no war for a period of 30 years...and we still couldnt get National Health Care done.

First things first..eliminate the ridiculous malpractice suits that have driven up the cost of medical care...or at the very least, limit the monetary damage that can be awarded.

Secondly, American pharmaceutical manufactures need to quite subsidizing countries like Canada, the UK, and countless others with reduced drug costs, thereby costing the US person more for their prescription.

Thirdly, the insurance companies will then need to lower their premiums to offset the above mentioned items.

The fucking war has nothing to do with this...the money would have been spent elsewhere..you know it, I know it.. we all know it.
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2009, 06:38:15 PM »

I spose thats OK for you Brits, being the generous lot that you are.

It's called "Social Health Care" which as far as i've ever been able to figure out is the measure of a country's worth and standing in the human rights field.

It's true we don't have the same problem with delinquent, jobless layabouts that you do in the US but if you think that, that's a reason to withold healthcare from the most needy in our society then you really must love driving your 5 litre petrol guzzler around.  :wink:
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2009, 06:47:39 PM »

It's called "Social Health Care" which as far as i've ever been able to figure out is the measure of a country's worth and standing in the human rights field.

It's true we don't have the same problem with delinquent, jobless layabouts that you do in the US but if you think that, that's a reason to withold healthcare from the most needy in our society then you really must love driving your 5 litre petrol guzzler around.  :wink:

Why yes... yes I do. I enjoy my truck, and the fun it gives me being able to head to the hills for a fun weekend of 4WD-ing, and camping. And if I gotta move, or help a friend move...by golly, I can stack all kinds of shit in my p/u bed. Couldnt do that with a Mini-Cooper.

And human rights? Give me a break, we donate more money than any other country to other nations to help preserve life, and their rights. And maybe thats part of the problem too..perhaps we need to take care of our own first.
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2009, 06:58:00 PM »

we donate more money than any other country to other nations to help preserve life, and their rights.

You seem very proud of this and yet you still have a problem with helping out the underprivileged in your own country?? Strange man  :confused:
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2009, 07:23:52 PM »

Mine and my families health is covered, it's this thing called insurance, and I pay for it, out of my salary, that I work very hard for. What I'd object to is having to pay an exorbitant amount of taxes to pay for some lazy fuck that wont go out an get a job (todays economy not withstanding). I spose thats OK for you Brits, being the generous lot that you are.

That statement is flawed on various levels. First, it assumes that people don't have insurance because they are lazy and dont work. That is absolute bollocks.

There are a great many people who work full time and don't have it either because their employer doesnt offer it or the cost is prohibitive. Do you think that the average waitress or hamburger flipper at McDonald's gets insurance benefits? Or that the someone who was recently laid off or whose company just went belly up under in the economy can afford to purchase a COBRA policy for their family AND pay the rent or mortgage?

I run my own small business and am dreading to see what my insurance renewal rates are going to be like in May. I'm already paying close to $800/mo for myself and a portion of $1,200 for an employee which I really cannot afford to do anymore. Even if stays around the same rate, Im going to have to either drop it or get some shitty HMO plan with a high deductible which is practically useless for routine care unless you have something drastic happen to you that runs in the thousands of dollars. If I drop it, that will be at least 2 more people without insurance, not to mention the "independent contractors" I work with who aren't eligible for my group coverage in the first place. 

That's the flawed view that people who live in a glass bubble world have. They think that everyone has access to insurance if they just get off their lazy asses and find an executive job with Halliburton or some big company like that, completely oblivious to the real world facts.

The reality is that the system which was never good to begin with is really fucked up now and going to be much worse a year from now unless they do something about it.

Let me ask you something, did you object having to pay an exorbitant amount taxes to invade Iraq? Are you upset about having to pay billions of dollars of interest on the $11 trillion debt which was mostly run up by George Bush when he was in office?

Considering all the wars, bridges to nowhere, pig smell studies, prisons, foreign aid including the shrink wrapped $100 million that went to Iraq and "disappeared" and other crap that we spend tax money on, medical care for those who need it should be at the top of the list.

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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2009, 08:26:06 PM »



First things first..eliminate the ridiculous malpractice suits that have driven up the cost of medical care...or at the very least, limit the monetary damage that can be awarded.

I agree. Cant be done here and if something happens the Government have to pay you. Thus it gets investigated and fixed dam quick. Not saying our system is perfect cause its far from it, but at least every person has free access to a basic human right. Health Care

Secondly, American pharmaceutical manufactures need to quite subsidizing countries like Canada, the UK, and countless others with reduced drug costs, thereby costing the US person more for their prescription.

Bullshit. Countries like that get prescription drugs at reasonable prices because it controlled by there Governments. What we dont get is rip off at every turn by greedy drug companies. 


The fucking war has nothing to do with this...the money would have been spent elsewhere..you know it, I know it.. we all know it.

No what the war shows, is you have the money to provide free health care to every person if you choose to do so.
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2009, 10:41:29 PM »

Haveing been homeless - I have waited at a county hospital for a day and then left without being seen because I had to go. If I got an infection, so be it. It S U C K E D. And not a single person out there can judge unless they have been there themselves. There ARE people out there who can't get a job, or are working a few different part time jobs (Part timers don't get benefits and a lot of companies choose to only hire part timers so they don't legally HAVE to pay benefits) and can't get medical care.

I am one to believe that you can get a job if you really want to. Go to 6 temp agencies or scrub fucking toilets whatever gets you by until you can get a better gig - you make your bed and lie in it, but with this economy - the most secure jobs are gone. People can't provide for their families anymore. Something needs to be done. If this was 8 years ago, it would have been a different opinion. I would tell you to get a fucking job and STFU - but here we are with huge companies folding. There simply isn't the money to be had for everyone. People who used to tell ME what to do as my customers telling me what was needed at their retail facilities are now for the last 6 months sending ME their resume asking if I know of a job opening - this is a different time. This is a more serious issue. If we can't take care of us, how the fuck are we to take care of everyone else?
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2009, 08:38:04 AM »

That statement is flawed on various levels. First, it assumes that people don't have insurance because they are lazy and dont work. That is absolute bollocks.

There are a great many people who work full time and don't have it either because their employer doesnt offer it or the cost is prohibitive. Do you think that the average waitress or hamburger flipper at McDonald's gets insurance benefits? Or that the someone who was recently laid off or whose company just went belly up under in the economy can afford to purchase a COBRA policy for their family AND pay the rent or mortgage?

I run my own small business and am dreading to see what my insurance renewal rates are going to be like in May. I'm already paying close to $800/mo for myself and a portion of $1,200 for an employee which I really cannot afford to do anymore. Even if stays around the same rate, Im going to have to either drop it or get some shitty HMO plan with a high deductible which is practically useless for routine care unless you have something drastic happen to you that runs in the thousands of dollars. If I drop it, that will be at least 2 more people without insurance, not to mention the "independent contractors" I work with who aren't eligible for my group coverage in the first place. 

That's the flawed view that people who live in a glass bubble world have. They think that everyone has access to insurance if they just get off their lazy asses and find an executive job with Halliburton or some big company like that, completely oblivious to the real world facts.

The reality is that the system which was never good to begin with is really fucked up now and going to be much worse a year from now unless they do something about it.

Let me ask you something, did you object having to pay an exorbitant amount taxes to invade Iraq? Are you upset about having to pay billions of dollars of interest on the $11 trillion debt which was mostly run up by George Bush when he was in office?

Considering all the wars, bridges to nowhere, pig smell studies, prisons, foreign aid including the shrink wrapped $100 million that went to Iraq and "disappeared" and other crap that we spend tax money on, medical care for those who need it should be at the top of the list.




You must not have read this post

I summed it up by stating that the insurance premiums need to be lowered, making it affordable for those who do work. My bitch is that I dont want my tax $$$ going to all the lazy fucks out there, and you know as well as I they are a'plenty.

Quote from: Con
Bullshit. Countries like that get prescription drugs at reasonable prices because it controlled by there Governments. What we dont get is rip off at every turn by greedy drug companies.


They negotiate/force their pricing on the American owned drug companies (which almost all of them are), and in turn..Americans pay a higher price for their drugs. So in a sense, we are helping to offset the cost for your "free" healthcare. Agreed that the drug companies can defo be called greedy, but at the same time...they, like all businesses... are in business to make a profit, and give a healthy return to the shareholders. It's called Capitalism. We dont care for Socialism..at least not yet.
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2009, 02:40:47 PM »


They negotiate/force their pricing on the American owned drug companies (which almost all of them are), and in turn..Americans pay a higher price for their drugs. So in a sense, we are helping to offset the cost for your "free" healthcare. Agreed that the drug companies can defo be called greedy, but at the same time...they, like all businesses... are in business to make a profit, and give a healthy return to the shareholders. It's called Capitalism. We dont care for Socialism..at least not yet.


What complete and utter bullshit. They sell to our countries and make a profit. They sell to you and laugh their fat asses off at your paying over inflated prices.

Fact is they simply wouldn't supply to us if they didn't make money out of it. saying you don't want your tax money spent on health care is a a joke. that's exactly the kind of thing it should be used on. Not bailing out failed companies like Ford.

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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2009, 02:58:23 PM »


What complete and utter bullshit. They sell to our countries and make a profit. They sell to you and laugh their fat asses off at your paying over inflated prices.

Fact is they simply wouldn't supply to us if they didn't make money out of it. saying you don't want your tax money spent on health care is a a joke. that's exactly the kind of thing it should be used on. Not bailing out failed companies like Ford.



Ford is the only one of the "Big 3" who hasnt requested bailout money, and is actually in pretty good shape, especially with the latest agreement with the UAW. However that would be a fact, and it appears you arent to in tune with facts.

Sure, they (drug companies) make a small margin on the stuff thats given/sold to Socialist Countries..but enough to fund more, very expensive, and time consuming research? No, probably not.

Which brings up another gripe...the amount of time it takes for medications to be approved here, in the USA. That process needs to be streamlined somehow.
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Re: The American Health system
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2009, 03:10:33 PM »

Ford is the only one of the "Big 3" who hasnt requested bailout money, and is actually in pretty good shape, especially with the latest agreement with the UAW. However that would be a fact, and it appears you arent to in tune with facts.

Sure, they (drug companies) make a small margin on the stuff thats given/sold to Socialist Countries..but enough to fund more, very expensive, and time consuming research? No, probably not.

Which brings up another gripe...the amount of time it takes for medications to be approved here, in the USA. That process needs to be streamlined somehow.

Ford or who ever, I really don't give a fuck. Small profit? You have facts to back that? Please make sure you do if you are going to mouth off about facts.

 I worked closely with a drug company here about 5 years ago and there profit margins were very healthy.

The fact the drug companies can spend millions influencing congress show they are making way to much and they will do anything to keep that. Including brain washing people like you.

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