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Author Topic: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..  (Read 978 times)

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Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« on: March 14, 2009, 03:28:26 PM »

Since no one will write about it, I will.....

I find it hypocritical of Obama to state during his campaign that it would not be "business as usual" in DC, that what we needed was change.  Yet, when he gets the opportunity to actually practice what he preaches, he balks.  I'm not saying that others haven't, but he said time and time again that he will stand by these promises.  But sadly, he hasn't.

First it was the hiring of hardcore Washington insiders to his Administration, then came the lobbyists, but this weeks actions took the cake...This week he signed a stimulus bill that had over 9,000 earmarks, some legit, some not so.  He stated "This is not a perfect bill, but it needs to be passed, but let them know that this will not be tolerated in the future"...WTF?  This was his opportunity to shine, and all he did was bow down and take it in the ass.  It's like telling a kid, I'm warning you not to do that again, but allow them to do it this time... :confused:

I understand the stimulus program needs to go forward, but doesn't keeping your word mean anything?  There are times that you need to draw that line in the sand, I think this was one of them...and before any of you Repugs take aim, you had 40% of those earmarks, and not one of yours said "I will retract mine" so fuck off.   :slap:

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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2009, 06:34:24 PM »

I'll ask one more time and then I'll start punching people, wtf is an earmark  :hammer:
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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2009, 07:28:56 PM »

I'll ask one more time and then I'll start punching people, wtf is an earmark  :hammer:

It's a tag... like money earmarked for (set aside for)

Unless I'm wrong.. and that can't be, cause I'm Peter Perfect
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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2009, 08:03:19 PM »

Sweet...now...set aside for what  :hammer:
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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2009, 08:29:27 PM »

Sweet...now...set aside for what  :hammer:

I dunno... I don't recall seeing any of the preceding posts give specifics... I took the references to indicate that each state/senator negotiates/weasels a 'tag' into the various bits of legislation that they give the nod to, so they are seen to be looking after the interests of their own state.  Piggybacking their own agenda to bigger issues.. (Fuck knows really)   

Maybe one of our 'even less enlightened' American friends can tell us. :snack:
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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2009, 09:24:11 PM »

I'll ask one more time and then I'll start punching people, wtf is an earmark  :hammer:

Now you know how some of us feel when you go around talking about boat races.  :rotf:

PeePee is pretty much spot on. It's when Congress sends an important bill for the President to sign into law like to fund the troops or bailout the automakers, and they attach a bunch of useless shit to it that benefits no one other than the congressional district or state of the legislator who attached the language to it. (e.g., $1 million to build a bridge "to nowhere" on some remote tract of land near Hicksville, Arkansas; $500,000 for the Polish Polka Museum of History in Solidarity City, Illinois). That makes the people back home in the district of the legislator very happy but it does nothing for the rest of the country.

The President has two choices - he can sign the bill into law as is or veto the entire thing and hope that Congress sends him another bill minus all the pet projects. Very inefficient way of governing.

Sometimes things just need to get signed and there isn't enough time to send it back to Congress and wait for a new one so the President signs the bill but isn't happy about it like Ange sardonically mentioned.

It's a fact of life which happens to EVERY President. Bush 41 once promised "read my lips, no new taxes" and had to sign a funding bill with new taxes in it in order to keep the government from shutting down from lack of funding. In that case it was political posturing by the Dems which they then used against him in the election.

As I mentioned previously, I think that the only real practical solution is to give the President a line item veto where he can veto portions of the a bill that are crap while keeping the rest of it in tact which he can sign into law. Lots of state Governors already have it and use it successfully at the state level but for some reason, the federal government can't manage to adopt it for the good of the country. They just don't want to give more power to the president.

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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2009, 09:46:15 PM »

So why is "earmarking" so frowned upon?

Surely it's common sense to know where money is being spent before you release a huge wad of cash into the economy? Is the suggestion that all this earmarked stuff is going to projects that help political individuals rather than the economy in general?  :snack:
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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2009, 09:56:10 PM »

It's frowned upon because it's an example of the government taking tax dollars and spending it on things that they shouldn't be spending it on. All types of crazy shit like "studies" at the local pig farm to see why pigs smell so bad and other oddball things which benefit only a few people.

However, at the point we're in now, I would be inclined to say that any money spent on putting people to work and building infrastructure would probably be a good thing, even if local in nature.

In the long run, it mainly benefits the more powerful legislators who have the pull to insert language into bills that fund wasteful stuff like that in their home districts. That's one of the few things that I agreed with John McCain about.

How do the British do it? Is Parliament the one who has the final say over government spending or does the PM have to approve it? Educate me.
 

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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2009, 10:20:39 PM »

It's gone 2 in the morning and explaining the workings of the UK government is probably beyond me at the best of times, never mind with an afternoon at the pub and 1 1/2 bottles of Rioja rumbling around inside me  :wink: However this place www.parliament.uk is pretty straight to the point and is a good place to start. It's where i go to pick up on points i'm unsure about anyway.
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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2009, 10:33:56 PM »

Whole different ball game, certainly no such thing as ear marks but then our parliamentary system is a world apart.  The incumbent government by its very nature has a clear majority.  The only time when any horse trading occurs is when the govt has a small majority of say 20 seats and there are say 20/30 MP's (rebels) threatening to vote against its own party but its never a fiscal matter, more a matter of watering down the bill with amendments to its wording to stop the rebels voting against party lines with the opposition.

With these earmarks and the huge role that lobbyists play your politics is way more money based than ours but it is the home of capitalism.......


EDIT....scouse lightweight ^^^^  :rotf:
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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2009, 10:58:28 PM »

EDIT....scouse lightweight ^^^^  :rotf:

It's terrible this age thing. Gone are the days of being up for 72 hours straight and still hitting work Monday. I'll need till Thursday to recover this week.  :wheelchair:
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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2009, 11:25:28 PM »

Whole different ball game, certainly no such thing as ear marks but then our parliamentary system is a world apart.  The incumbent government by its very nature has a clear majority. 

So even if they are the majority, there's no horsehitting around with MP's trying to fund projects that benefit mainly the people of their home district?

Over here it's not so much as a majority/minority thing as we can see with Obama not being happy with the bill and the Dems having control of Congress. It's much more of a self-serving thing by powerful legislators who bring back federal spending projects from Washington to benefit those who vote for them in their district.

Since no one else can vote against them outside their district in the elections, naturally they keep being re-elected by those benefiting from the earmarks. It's sort of like a vicious cycle and there's not much that the President can do but to keep vetoing bills until they take the pork out.

I dont think that Obama is a hypocrite on account of that since he trying and his options are limited. What gets me are all the legislators like McCain who blame the President instead of calling out the fucking legislators who insert the spending provisions into the bills in the first place.

During the campaign he kept saying that if anyone tried that when he becomes President (haw haw), that he "would make them famous" by calling them out and presumably subjecting them to ridicule. Well, it's back to business as usual for him and blaming Obama. Just like he blamed Bush for signing the first pork ridden bailout bill which McCain himself voted for in the Senate.

Im still not clear about the British system though - does the PM (or Queen) have a veto or say in the passing of spending laws or is it all done by Parliament?
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  • Fixated on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.
  • Self-perception of being unique, superior and associated with high-status people and institutions
  • Needing constant admiration from others
  • Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others
  • Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain
  • Unwilling to empathize with others' feelings, wishes, or needs
  • Intensely envious of others and the belief that others are equally envious of them
  • Pompous and arrogant demeanor

deBauch

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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2009, 01:35:56 AM »

Strikes me as being wide open for corruption, it kinda makes me think of racketeering  :confused:.

Her Maj is purely ceremonial and has bugger all to do with day to day politics and the PM has no power of veto, everything is subject to a vote in the house of commons.  The nearest we have to your system is a cabinet but ours are all elected MP's.  Another massive difference is that we have a permanent civil service so the various ministers may change but the administrative infrastructure remains.
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thekid65

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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2009, 07:18:22 AM »

It's frowned upon because it's an example of the government taking tax dollars and spending it on things that they shouldn't be spending it on. All types of crazy shit like "studies" at the local pig farm to see why pigs smell so bad and other oddball things which benefit only a few people.

However, at the point we're in now, I would be inclined to say that any money spent on putting people to work and building infrastructure would probably be a good thing, even if local in nature.

In the long run, it mainly benefits the more powerful legislators who have the pull to insert language into bills that fund wasteful stuff like that in their home districts. That's one of the few things that I agreed with John McCain about.




To expand on that, one of the reasons I think it really irritates the folks (or at least me) is that the earmarks are tacked on to much more important things that the American Public needs (like a government spending budget). It's  as if the bastards are sneaking shit in there, instead of trying to get it passed on a stand alone, which they know will never happen.
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AZtucson

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Re: Hypocrisy rears its ugly head..
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2009, 09:03:49 AM »

So why is "earmarking" so frowned upon?

Surely it's common sense to know where money is being spent before you release a huge wad of cash into the economy? Is the suggestion that all this earmarked stuff is going to projects that help political individuals rather than the economy in general?  :snack:

You're right in this case.  This is a spending bill to pump money back into the economy, not for instance a bill to fund troops with sneaky ad-ons to benefit the states of political allies.  So by definition Obama's bill is sending money to specific projects in various states.

His opponents are just using semantics to attack him, labeling it as "9000 earmarks" because it's directed to specific projects.  Hell, it HAS to be directed at specific projects.
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