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Author Topic: What you need to watch before you vote.  (Read 2487 times)

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Cookie MonsterTopic starter

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What you need to watch before you vote.
« on: October 30, 2008, 08:28:54 PM »

http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194267.php


I will discuss it with you all in due course. I wont be voting, i do not wish to take any responsibility for the outcome. I am listening to this though....

http://www.youtube.com/v/KyFiyCa9pDo&hl
or if not embeded..



Live long and prosper. :stir:

{modded media code-popt}
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princess of pt

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2008, 09:17:25 PM »

Funny, that video maker is unaware of Bushs failed mortgage plan that he pushed or the "fundamentals" of the economy that McCain clearly does not understand.



Bush mortgage plan leaves some cold
By Edmund L. Andrews Published: December 7, 2007

WASHINGTON: At least one thing is clear about President George W. Bush's plan to help people trapped by the mortgage meltdown: It is an industry-led plan, not a government bailout.

Although Bush unveiled the plan at the White House on Thursday, its terms were set by the mortgage industry and Wall Street banks. The effort is voluntary and it leaves plenty of wiggle room for lenders. Moreover, it would affect only a small number of subprime borrowers.

The plan was the target of criticism from consumer advocates, who said its scope was too narrow, and from investment firms, who said it went too far. Others warned that the plan, by letting some stretched homeowners off the hook, could encourage more reckless borrowing in the future.

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson Jr., who hammered out the agreement, said the plan was not a "silver bullet."

"We face a difficult problem for which there is no perfect solution," he said.

continued here

Please, try and do a little homework about the subject matter prior to dropping a link and promising to "discuss later".

As far as youtubes go, all you need is the url, the board recognizes its a media link and embeds accordingly.

TY :wink:
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Cookie MonsterTopic starter

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2008, 11:29:39 PM »

My mistake, I thought it was McCain running for office and not GWB for a third term.
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princess of pt

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2008, 02:24:30 AM »

My mistake, I thought it was McCain running for office and not GWB for a third term.

McCain is only running on 10% of his own agenda. The other 90% is GWB's.
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Cookie MonsterTopic starter

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2008, 06:28:40 AM »

You are really happy to buy into that?
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princess of pt

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2008, 06:57:15 AM »

You are really happy to buy into that?

To "buy into" what exactly? I'm not "buying into" dick.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
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Cookie MonsterTopic starter

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2008, 10:56:43 AM »

yes, of course politicians reflect there parties views, Buckwheat is more a carbon cut out demo than mccain is a gop clone.
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princess of pt

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2008, 02:42:58 PM »

yes, of course politicians reflect there parties views, Buckwheat is more a carbon cut out demo than mccain is a gop clone.

McCain is no more a Maverick than the charmin ultra toilet paper bear. He makes empty stump promises about knowing how to find and defeat Osama Bin and his only strategy is to scare people into voting for him, just like the rest of the GOP.
Obama has been able to provide a legitimate, logical outline as to how he would approach the problems. He recognizes the weaknesses and has been able to prioritize what needs to be addressed primarily and admits it's not going to be easy.
McCain is a soggy frozen french fry in comparison. All he has proved thus far is that his ideas are baseless, he is only capable of erratic decision making under pressure, and he has surrounded himself with chowder heads to run his campaign. Not exactly the kinda guy you'd want in charge when north korea has a nuke poised in our direction. If McCain gets into office we will have a 3rd world war because he decided to suspend his presidential responsibilities so that the companies he deregulated can be assured their greed is adequately rewarded at the cost of the tax payers and so he can smother all his ties to them from plain view.
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RizenPhoeniz

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2008, 02:57:23 PM »

My mistake, I thought it was McCain running for office and not GWB for a third term.

They are 90% the same.
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RizenPhoeniz

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2008, 04:11:44 PM »

You are really happy to buy into that?

Here's what I do buy.

McCain wants to give the biggest tax cuts to people that don't need them. He also wants to tax the medical benefits that people receive from their employers while doing nothing to ensure all Americans are insured.

For me it's even more simple than that. I believe in a social contract. An agreement between we the people that is embodied in our government. This agreement is meant to protect the average person from the powerful. It is meant to level the playing field giving everyone a chance at a decent life. It is meant to steward are natural resources and ecology to provide for the now and preserve the future.  While I find the Dem's far from my ideal, they are much closer then the "Fend for yourselves" Republicans.
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Cookie MonsterTopic starter

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2008, 05:34:21 PM »

Well  this article is on the BBC website.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7700913.stm

Says buckwheat is the most leftwing senator who continually opposed the surge in Iraq even after it was obviously succeding. There are no bi-partisan votes in his record.

In the clip i posted it referenced a commitee that McCain supported to investigate the subprime market but was blocked by Democrats including Buckwheat. Buckwheat has been funded by Fannie Mae et al because of his fervent support for subprime lending.

You will get change all right but I guarantee within 2 years you will regret it. Dont know your circumstances and I am sure your minds are made up. Just wish you happy voting thats all.

To be honest I am more interested in Gordon Browns foul ups.
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RizenPhoeniz

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2008, 07:10:36 PM »


Says buckwheat is the most leftwing senator

Outstanding, maybe he is a socialist.  :whig:
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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2008, 02:21:38 AM »

Says buckwheat is the most leftwing senator who continually opposed the surge in Iraq even after it was obviously succeding.

A) whats wrong with being left wing?

B) why would you support an increase in something you didnt agree with from the beginning?

personally, i dont agree with the US being in Iraq we should have never been there in the first place. i take a different stance on it than most though. we are in a war. there is no taking it back, so, if we're gonna do it, do it. wars dont have to be something that gets drawn out like this. it CANT be something that gets drawn out, look at what afghanistan did to russia. i see it like this, right now we're jabbing and backing away, jabbing and backing away and never actually committing to it. we started this war, now we have to finish it or get the fuck out. most people dont even realize the VAST differences in casualties that todays wars have compared with the wars of the past. it would be interesting to see the statistics regarding how many troops get killed in iraq in a month vs how many people in america die in car accidents in that same month. winning a war takes feet on the ground and guns and rifles in hand. how the FUCK is the most militarily powerful nation in the world going to somehow get stuck fighting in two VERY small countries for almost 8 fucking years? its called "pussyfooting" and its a lot like CroCop getting in a fight with a couple of 9th graders and being unable to stomp their asses into the ground because we're too afraid we might break a knuckle on their fragile little chins. if we had spent 1/2 of the money we've spent so far in these wars all at once, right at the beginning, and doubled or even tripled the # of feet on the ground and actually took control of these countries, we would be in FAR better shape than we are now.

i in no way support the war, in fact i think that those involved in starting it should be brought up on criminal charges, at the very least negligence. however, if youre gonna start a fight you better not only have the power to back you up, but you also have to have the guts to give it your ALL and fucking brawl. america is full of assholes(bible-thumping alcoholics with guns) and pussies(OH MY GOD BUT Little Tommy might get distracted from his christianity lessons if daddy goes to war<sadface> ) and both of them are just begging to get fucked.

They are 90% the same.

humans and fruit flies have 78% the same DNA. that being said, just because two people vote for the same things doesnt mean they do it for the same reasons. not that im defending mccain or anything (lol), i just dont think thats very good evidence that hes the same as bush. sounds like those political ads to me, all buzzwords and hype.
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Cookie MonsterTopic starter

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2008, 09:45:31 AM »

A) whats wrong with being left wing?


A political heritage of failure and genocide. Although depends how far left.
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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2008, 12:37:56 PM »

Well  this article is on the BBC website.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7700913.stm



Quote
Peter Wehner
Former deputy assistant to President Bush


A Bush flunky trying to make the case against Obama. This ought to be fun.

Quote
He is a man of prodigious political talents who exudes grace, equanimity and self-possession. He is unflappable, possesses a first-rate mind, and is capable of inspiring rhetoric.

And he would be a very bad choice for president.


Right off the bat we see where this going and it's an exemplification of so many of the ideologues that I have seen in the last few months - they have no choice but to admit that Obama has many of the qualities which a president should have, not the least of which is a first rate mind (something we havent had in the past 8 years), but then they discard it all and go right for the sophistry, baseless talking points and fallacious imputation of everything from being a Marxist, socialist, radical, liberal, tax raising, big spending, vote-rigging, un-American, anti-Israeli terrorist, not for anything that he actually done, but because of his association with others and anything else that they can make up and think sounds good to con the unwashed masses.

Let's take a look and see what else this shitsplat has to say..

Quote
On the most important issue he has confronted as a legislator, the surge of forces in Iraq, Senator Obama was a harsh critic.

His opposition to President Bush's new strategy was wrong.

Much worse is the fact that Obama continued to oppose the surge at every stage, even after it was obviously succeeding.

To this day, even as he finally concedes the surge has "succeeded beyond our wildest imagination," Obama insists his opposition to the surge was correct.

Senator Obama's view is that a defeat in Iraq would somehow help our efforts in Afghanistan.

Indeed, if Obama had had his way, all American combat troops would have been withdrawn from Iraq by March 2008, which would have led to civil war and genocide; an unprecedented victory for al-Qaeda and Islamic jihadists; and a boon to Iran.

This fact is, by itself, a shattering indictment to Obama's judgement, and in the area that is the most important responsibility of a president: his duties as commander-in-chief. 


Uhhh, on the most important issue so far in this century, he was right from the very start and all you war mongering douchebags were wrong.

Were there any weapons of mass destruction? Was there any nuclear warheads? Was there any thing at all that you can point to show the world that Iraq was a threat to us and world peace to justify invading them, justify getting over 4,000 soldiers killed and justify spending over $1,000,000,000,000 on?

That's right, asswipe, there were none and there is nothing to justify it. At best it was the most egregious incompetence displayed by a U.S. President in our generation and at worse, all a big lie to get back at the meanie who tried to assassinate his poppy while making billions of dollars for the company on whose board the vice president sat on before the war.

We had no justification to be there in the first place. None. Let alone spend another $200 billion mounting some fucking surge 6 years after it became evident that we have no moral justification and after President Bumblefuck said MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Why are we still there? We need a strategy to get us the hell out, not some battle plan to get deeper in the hole.

At this point we're no different the USSR invading and occupying Afghanistan which for years was the rallying cry for so many conservatives to point to and say that it was an evil empire when in actuality, a good case can be made that we are much worse because at least the USSR invaded their neighbor at the request of the Afghan government to quash rebels.

We invaded on our own drugstore cowboy accord while latching on to absolute worthless "intelligence" which indeed turned out to be nothing more than fabricated pretext and are now an occupying nation in a county that was never a significant threat to us in another continent.

THAT is why Obama didn't support a surge, you stupid fucking shitball. He wants to get us out of that hell hole that we had no business being in to begin with, not complicate Bush's mistake by occupying it for 100 years if necessary or whatever it was that McCain said. Whatever happens in Iraq after we leave can't possibly be worse than what has happened up to now.

You want to talk about al-qaeda and genocide after the Bush war has resulted in the death of how many tens of thousands of civilians? The displacement of how many hundreds of thousands Iraqis who lost everything and fled to other countries where they can't even get a work visa? And the birth of how many terrorist cells in Iraq which didn't exist pre-2002? Do you even have any idea of what youre talking about?

Do you think those people are EVER going to stop fighting an occupying army in their land? Would the U.S. ever stop fighting an occupying force and planting roadside bombs if another country or another life form from another planet was occupying OUR country and taking over the government? The reason they are fighting, planting bombs and creating terror cells which is nothing more than civilians trying to kill the occupiers is because WE ARE THERE IN THEIR COUNTRY, imbecile.

Nothing says more about using sound judgment and being a good commander-in-chief like not getting us into wars that we dont need to fight. A lesson lost on your shit-for-brains boss and those too clouded in a dense haze of stupidity to realize it. Fuck you and your surge. Obama is right to insist on putting an end to that war and bringing our soldiers home instead of wasting more lives and money to do nothing but make more enemies and money for oil and military contractors like Halliburton and it's dozens of shell company subsidiaries that they have set up.

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Extreme liberalism

I suspect, too, that Obama will, as his running mate has said, invite an international challenge early on.

Obama appears to be a man who dodges conflict and hard decisions; the result may be dangerous displays of indecision and weakness.


Appears? You mean like McCain when he told the world that he was unable to handle a debate and a congressional vote in the same week so he canceled the debate, only to uncancel it the day it was scheduled for?

Is that what you mean by displays of indecision and weakness? It's hard to tell since you didnt cite a single example in Obama's background to illustrate what youre talking about.

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Beyond that is the fact that Senator Obama, while exuding a centrist style and employing soothing rhetoric, has amassed a record that places him on the extreme left end of our political spectrum, whether the subject is taxes, trade, healthcare, the size and role of the federal government, the federal courts, missile defence, or virtually any other policy area.


Hmm, another shinning example of keep slinging mud and something is bound to stick on him. I see nothing more than a laundry list of generalities devoid of a single example of this "extreme left end of the political spectrum" that you talk about. Why is that? Why do you people always talk in generalities, assumptions and platitudes and hardly ever mention any facts such as there were no weapons of mass destruction like Bush said?

Why would cutting taxes for 95% of workers be at the left end of the spectrum? I remember when the Republican Party use to stand for those kind of things. Why would free and fair trade make him an extremist? Anyone have an answer to that brainfart? I dont think this mong is even capable of making a lucid point that doesnt rely on unsupported generalities.

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In fact, Senator Obama has been judged by the non-partisan National Journal as the most liberal member of the Senate.


After 8 years of the prodigiously failed policies and disgraceful mismanagement of the country by the right wing, I take that as a ringing endorsement. Even if it means fuckall but at this point, the more liberal, the quicker we can reverse course from the once in a lifetime morass that your fucktwat former boss and party put us in.

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His record as an Illinois state senator is, if anything, more troubling. He opposed legislation that would have prevented infanticide against children who had survived abortion attempts.


I love the right wing gobbledygook they use to appeal to the small minority of pea-brained fundamentalist who are the only ones who buy into that crap - prevented infanticide against children who survived abortion attempts! Emphasis on a legally protected fundamental right under our Constitution, abortion, as "infanticide" and aborted fetuses as "children". LOL! 

Just like McCain trying to make a disingenuous case that Obama was against the troops because he voted against a funding bill with no time table for a withdrawal from Iraq but made no mention about him voting for the funding bill for the troops with a time table.

Lie, tell half-truths, spin things and mislabel perfectly legal positions as crimes against humanity in order to impute false impressions on your opponent. Nothing says consummate crooked, lying politician who will say anything to get elected more than that. Is that the change that McCain has been promising?

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html

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Senator Obama has presented himself as a post-partisan figure. Once again, however, his record belies his claim.

He is among the most reliably partisan voters the Democrats have.

He has not opposed the special interest groups of his party on a single important issue. And he has no impressive bipartisan achievements to his credit.

Senator Obama is, in short, an orthodox partisan, a man of left-leaning instinct who has - through the power of his rhetoric, head-snapping shifts in his position, and the attractiveness of his personality - won people over.


Translation: he had the sense to vote against the failed Bush and Republican policies more than than anyone. Is there anymore reason why not to vote him?


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Race card

Even Senator Obama's claim of being a practitioner of a "new politics" is fraudulent.


Fraudulent? When did you establish any kind of fraud to use the word "even"? If anyone is a fraud it is you for presenting opinions as facts without a shred of proof or factual bases to back it up.

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He has run ads about Senator McCain's position on healthcare, social security, immigration, and the Iraq war that are demonstrably false.


You have got to be kidding me. Last time I checked, factcheck.org said that it was McCain/Palin who lied in a commercial by using THEM in an ad which was patently false. Among the hundreds of spurious claims by Palin and McCain which have been made in the past 8 weeks. What's that saying about people in glass houses?

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After saying he would never do such a thing, Obama and his supporters have employed the "race card" in a disturbing fashion - with Obama warning that key Republicans would use the fact that he's black against him, and later saying that George Bush and John McCain were going to try to frighten voters by saying Obama has "a funny name" and "doesn't look like all those other presidents on those dollar bills" (both claims are untrue).


Why is it that Rush putting his hands around his mouth and yelling into a mic "IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH RACE" comes to mind?

You people have been playing the race card to appeal to the backwood hicks and mouth-breathing mutants like Gayle "I dont trust him because he's arab" Quinnell since day one.

How many black radicals has he been linked with where they tried to impute everything which sounds unpatriotic onto him? Who circulated the pictures of him with the traditional clothing in Africa and for what reason if not to scare? Who's is trying to link him the PLO? If you would get your head out of your ass, you would see that the words that Obama used have as much application to him being an Arab as they do about race. And using his funny sounding name while portraying him as 'different' than 'the real Americans' is exactly what you losers have been doing.

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And Senator Obama's intimate 20-year relationship with the Reverend Jeremiah Wright - an anti-American extremist - is troubling.

It reinforces the sense that much of what Obama has presented about himself is a mirage - an impressive one for sure, but a mirage nonetheless.


Ah, and right on cue here we go, can't leave out those relationships with anit-American radicals to impute THEIR ideas of the world on him.

It had no inkling of an effect on his ability to serve in the public sector and the government for those 20 years but again, contrary to anything factual you can point to support what youre saying, we should take at you, a Bush White House flunky, at his word about his hunch that it is troubling and all a mirage. Gotcha.

By the way, since we're talking about anti-American radical groups and facts, Mr Palin was a member of the  anti-American Alaskan Indy Party until 2002. I wonder if you're as troubled by that as you are by your wholly unsubstantiated hunches for Obama being a radical anti-American.

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And even if you were inclined to believe that Senator Obama will govern as a centrist - a questionable claim, given his record - the Democratic Party will hold a commanding position in the House and Senate.

Speaker Pelosi and majority leader Reid and their committee chairmen - many of them partisan, ideological, and ruthless - will exert enormous pressure on Obama to move left.

From all we know about him, Senator Obama will not resist it or defy them. And that, in turn, will lead to overreach.

Which is why even though next Tuesday will be a difficult day for Republicans and conservatives, the wise ones will understand that our moment will come again, and perhaps sooner than we think.

Our task is to be ready.


Man, youre so fucking clueless, it's no wonder why you have to live the rest of your life with the badge of shame of saying that George W Bush was your boss.

Youre too stupid to see that the Republican already lost the midterm elections over Iraq and that the overwhelming number of Americans dont support the war. Too enthralled with ideology to see how badly the Bush administration and the Republican controlled Congress has wrecked this country from the great shape it was in when they took power thanks to a 5-4 court decision.

You actually have the gall to think that the majority of people are going to be scared by tiresome "out of countrol tax and spend liberal" labels that you people pull out of your ass every election no matter who the Democrat is AFTER all the shit that the Republican controlled country has been through in the past 8 years? You actually think that we should give you fucktwats ANOTHER 4 YEARS? Four more years of the same shit, different shithead?

How long after Jimmy Carter left office did it take for the Democrats to regain the White House? That's what you clowns are looking at.

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Cookie MonsterTopic starter

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2008, 02:36:17 PM »

g?ood post. i could make a few small critisisms but wont, just elaborate on an early point you made.

The Republican party has seemed to lose its way under Bush over the last 8 years.

What got me worried first was Rumsfields dismissal of the Geneva convention on the articles of war. If I was POTUS i would have sacked him on the spot. then theres the nepotism and flunkyism of distrabution of post war contracts to rebuild iraq. Protectionsim and intervensionism in all the wrong places.

McCain could do no worse but it has to be said that bush appointed some really bad eggs. The only one that I fink was up to the job was Condelleza Rice.
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Deviouz1

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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2008, 02:49:11 PM »

A political heritage of failure and genocide. Although depends how far left.

specifics please?

are you referring to "left" in a global and all encompassing historical sense or in an american leftist sense?

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good post. i could make a few small criticisms but wont

odd, not debating on a debate forum? makes one wonder at the reasons for not doing so. it seems generalizations and idle, baseless speculation are your achilles heel as it were.

<shrug> whatever.
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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2008, 04:38:11 PM »

Global left and if you need examples your a retard, I gave my reason for not wanting to debate in an earlier post so try reading the fucking thread properly Dilbert.
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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2008, 05:22:21 PM »

Global left and if you need examples your a retard,

well, considering the fact that we're talking about american politics and IT'S "left" your statement about genocide and failure is not only misdirected and wrong but somewhat retarded in and of itself. twit.

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I gave my reason for not wanting to debate in an earlier post so try reading the fucking thread properly Dilbert.

i did read the thread properly and the only thing even remotely applicable is that you arent going to vote. regardless, if you didnt want to fucking debate then what the fuck are you doing on a debate forum dipshit?

sounds to me like someone just wants to spout tripe and not have listen to why what he is saying is twat-dribble. theres a lot of that going around lately. but its ok twinkle-toes, feel free to vomit bullshit all over the forum. you might want to consider doing it in one of the other ones though cause debating is what we do here, if youre not up to it then shut your trap and move along.
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Re: What you need to watch before you vote.
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2008, 07:22:31 PM »

A political heritage of failure and genocide. Although depends how far left.

Really? You should go to the Scandinavian countries and let them know that all hope for them is lost.
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