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Author Topic: House of Saddam  (Read 941 times)

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House of Saddam
« on: December 18, 2008, 11:50:20 PM »

Anyone catch this mini-series? I understand that it was on the BBC earlier this year and now it's showing on HBO. I was finally able to watch the final part tonight.

I thought it was a very good neutral account of Saddam's rise to power and downfall. In other words, it wasnt slanted to make the Americans look like good doers with God on their side fighting against the forces of the evildoers like the Republicans always like to paint. Nor was it an Oliver Stone special to make the Americans look like a bunch of baby killing madmen.

It was rather objectively factual and from what i know about the history of the Saddam regime, very accurate. Right down to the clothes Saddam was wearing when he got caught. Of course, lots of major events were covered in about a minute in the movie but at least they were covered. They can't cover everything.

Of particular intrigue I thought, was the relationship between his son-in-law Hussein Kamel and his son Udday. i didnt realize that Kamel was setting himself up to be the future leader of Iraq when he defected to Jordan and cooperated with the CIA and the UN but he got tossed aside by everyone and eventually was convinced to go back to Iraq only to be killed 3 days later. It was a fascinating portrayal that made me think of a mob boss and his inner circle ordering hits and keeping everyone else in line.

No doubt that Saddam was a brutal dictator who ruled with an iron fist but Im not so sure that he deserved his ultimate fate on account of the United States intervention nor was he any worse than the dozens of other dictators in the world. There are many more dictators in the world like Castro, Kim Jon Il, Omar al Bashir, Mugabe and the leaders of just about every country in Africa just to name a few who have imprisoned, tortured and killed dissenters yet you dont see the United States and British military invading them to bring the American god's gift of democracy to them.

Should we spend another trillion dollars to invade North Korea to free the hundreds of thousands of political prisoners they have in labor camps, feed the millions of starving people they have and introduce the concept of human rights to all the millions of their brainwashed citizens? After all, they dont even make any bones about admitting that they are developing weapons of mass destruction. We wouldn't even need a pretext to launch an invasion like with Iraq.

What did you think if you saw it and even if you didnt, do you think we were justified in putting a $25 million price on his head and in bringing him down to his eventual execution?

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Re: House of Saddam
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2008, 01:24:10 AM »

On the heels of the Dick Cheney admitting in an interview that it didn;t matter whether Iraq had WMDs or not, we still would have invaded them.

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Re: House of Saddam
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2008, 02:58:43 PM »


No doubt that Saddam was a brutal dictator who ruled with an iron fist but Im not so sure that he deserved his ultimate fate on account of the United States intervention nor was he any worse than the dozens of other dictators in the world. There are many more dictators in the world like Castro, Kim Jon Il, Omar al Bashir, Mugabe and the leaders of just about every country in Africa just to name a few who have imprisoned, tortured and killed dissenters yet you dont see the United States and British military invading them to bring the American god's gift of democracy to them.
I love how the US picks and chooses their "friendly" killer Dictators...Pinochet, Franco, Suharto, Papa and Baby Doc, Somoza and that's only a handful.  We made sure these murderers stayed in power because they were useful to the US in their countries...

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What did you think if you saw it and even if you didnt, do you think we were justified in putting a $25 million price on his head and in bringing him down to his eventual execution?
  Haven't seen it yet, but it's been TIVO'd.  No I don't think that Saddam  did anything that would warrant an all out war. If his people were so hell bent on getting rid of him, I'm sure the CIA would have helped them out.  Iran has "real" nuclear weapons, yet we seem to be pussies when it comes to them.  I guess the real reason why Bush invaded Iraq and not Iran, is because he was able to say WMD's better than he pronounces Nucular... ::)
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Re: House of Saddam
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2008, 12:49:29 AM »

I love how the US picks and chooses their "friendly" killer Dictators...Pinochet, Franco, Suharto, Papa and Baby Doc, Somoza and that's only a handful.  We made sure these murderers stayed in power because they were useful to the US in their countries...

Oh, that's another great point. You can add Saddam to that list as he was ally of ours against Iran when it was politically expedient as was depicted in part I. This was after he came to power and had all his political enemies executed in one fell swoop.

Anyone who has seen the chilling tape of the day he took over at the Iraqi parliament and announced one by one the names of the "traitors" who were sitting in the audience as his goons moved in to take them away (and execute them), would have to be sick to deal with person like that and make him an ally. But the United States had no problem doing so.

At some point later, the same Saddam who still executed his enemies became an evildoer and part of an axis of evil who our religious fucknut President falsely deemed too dangerous for world and had removed from power and ultimately executed. It all boils down to good vs evil with religion and of course we're trying to do good to world so we had to invade, hunt him down and have his entire regime killed. Not to mention all the innocent civilians. Or our own 4,000 soldiers. That really makes me ashamed to think about. 

Imagine if the arab world were a superpower and had the capability to invade and occupy our country. They could make the same case that Bush is a war criminal who is responsible for the killing of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians through a war fought on false pretenses. They would hunt him down, try him in a makeshift court of their supporters and have him executed and have about as much moral authority as the US had when it did the same to Saddam.

Maybe even more because Bush was commander in chief of the armed forces who killed by some accounts over 100,000 innocent civilians while Saddam was responsible for not a single American being killed prior to the invasion. It's no wonder why they hate us and throw shoes at Bush. We just keep sticking our noses in every country's internal affairs and keep making enemies who want to kill us all over the world. Why is that?


Quote
  Haven't seen it yet, but it's been TIVO'd.  No I don't think that Saddam  did anything that would warrant an all out war. If his people were so hell bent on getting rid of him, I'm sure the CIA would have helped them out.  Iran has "real" nuclear weapons, yet we seem to be pussies when it comes to them.  I guess the real reason why Bush invaded Iraq and not Iran, is because he was able to say WMD's better than he pronounces Nucular... ::)

I think North Korea is a much bigger threat than Iran is. Iran has never started a war in their history. They support radicals but that's Israel's problem, not ours. Let THEM deal with it. However since so many Jewish organizations and wealthy donors lobby and contribute money to powerful people in government, we have to get involved and do Israel's dirty work. We are in fact Israel's bitch. Anytime you see a congressional member talking about the importance of Israel to them, that's code word for Jews to donate money to their campaigns and proof positive that they are Israel's bitch.

There's no reason for us to invade Iran or start a war with them though. They are no more a threat at this point than Iraq was. When the time comes when they are testing ICBM's capable of delivering a warhead to our country, then that's the time when we should be talking about possibly taking military action against them. Im certain that before it gets to the point, Israel will take preemptive action against them.
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Re: House of Saddam
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2008, 06:07:11 AM »

I actually watched the last part only by chance.  I absolutely couldn't tear away from it.  It was the part about his son-in-law, too.  No one would touch him after he defected because he was part of Saddam's killing machine and mainly because Saddam uppercut his leverage by voluntarily giving up any information on WMD's his son-in-law had.  I always believe Saddam tried to convince everyone he had WMD's to prevent the West from invading and embolden his people.  I'm gonna caugt the rest of the mini-series soon.
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Re: House of Saddam
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2008, 11:08:47 AM »

I have just finished seeing parts I and II.  I will reserve judgement until the final episode...but I can't find any redeeming value in him, his cronies or his son.  But then again, does their action justify what we did..NO.

We have sat aside while truly heinous crimes have been committed.. Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Mobuto Sese Seko, yet we did nothing at all.
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Re: House of Saddam
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2008, 11:36:19 AM »

Ronald Reagan obviously thought he had redeeming value when he sent Donald Rumsfeld to meet with him in the 80s which shows how hypocritical our foreign policy can be.

This is the same Rumsfeld who was Sec of Defense when we launched the invasion based on falsified information shaking hands with the same Saddam who already had murdered an untold number of Iraqis who were his political enemies.

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Re: House of Saddam
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2008, 02:26:05 PM »

fairly old but the rumsfeld thing reminded me of this.

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Re: House of Saddam
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2008, 09:34:58 PM »

I saw part II and the whole Gulf War thing, last night.  Killing his brother-in-law was his downfall.  The rest of his generals were to scared to tell him the truth or their true opinions.
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Re: House of Saddam
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2008, 01:09:01 AM »

fairly old but the rumsfeld thing reminded me of this.




That was a serious dose of the truth which we rarely get to see in mainstream media. It was much, much worse then even I thought.
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Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder
  • Grandiosity with expectations of superior treatment from others
  • Fixated on fantasies of power, success, intelligence, attractiveness, etc.
  • Self-perception of being unique, superior and associated with high-status people and institutions
  • Needing constant admiration from others
  • Sense of entitlement to special treatment and to obedience from others
  • Exploitative of others to achieve personal gain
  • Unwilling to empathize with others' feelings, wishes, or needs
  • Intensely envious of others and the belief that others are equally envious of them
  • Pompous and arrogant demeanor
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