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Author Topic: The Death Penalty  (Read 7505 times)

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PersephoneTopic starter

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The Death Penalty
« on: January 24, 2009, 05:50:42 PM »

For or against?

I just know I'm gonna get shit for this, but I don't think that anyone has the right to take a life, and that INCLUDES THE STATE.

It's racist:

? In 96% of the states where there have been reviews of race
and the death penalty, there was a pattern of either race-ofvictim
or race-of-defendant discrimination, or both. (Prof.
David Baldus report to the ABA, 1998).
? 98% of the chief district attorneys in death penalty states are
white; only 1% are black. (Prof. Jeffrey Pokorak, Cornell
Law Review, 1998).
? A comprehensive study of the death penalty in North Carolina found that the odds of receiving a death sentence rose by 3.5 times
among those defendants whose victims were white. (Prof. Jack Boger and Dr. Isaac Unah, University of North Carolina, 2001).
? A study in California found that those who killed whites were over 3 times more likely to be sentenced to death than those who
killed blacks and over 4 times more likely than those who killed Latinos. (Pierce & Radelet, Santa Clara Law Review 2005).

It's NOT a deterrent:

? According to a survey of the former and present presidents of
the country's top academic criminological societies, 84% of
these experts rejected the notion that the death penalty
acts as a deterrent to murder. (Radelet & Akers, 1996)
? Consistent with previous years, the 2006 FBI Uniform Crime
Report showed that the South had the highest murder rate.
The South accounts for over 80% of executions. The
Northeast, which has less than 1% of all executions, again had
the lowest murder rate.

It's nothing but revenge, and vengeance is not justice. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

And what happens when we execute an innocent person. It happens. Read the statistics regarding people who've been exonerated:

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf

Even one accidental execution is one too many.

Yes, I agree, there are lots of criminals who seem to be a waste of space. And as I've said here before, when it comes to people who harm children, I have a very difficult time sticking to my guns on this topic. But overall, I think it's wrong.

Go ahead, y'all. Let me have it.
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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2009, 06:38:56 PM »



It's NOT a deterrent:


You ever met an executed person who's re-offended? Thought not


But the truth of the matter is that mistakes do happen and just one state sanctioned killing of an innocent person makes the whole system unworkable in my opinion.

However when a person admits to the crime in open court ie: not in a statement that was made under some form of duress then fuckin right, kill the bastards in as many painful and horrible ways the Medieval mind could conjour up, peel their fuckin skin and pour acid on the wounds, lets face it if one of your kids had been made to suffer terribly and then murdered by some heartless cunt you'd do it yourself wouldn't you?. So what if it's revenge the fuckers deserve to feel what they put others through.

On the other hand if someone pleads innocent but is found guilty and is convicted then life should mean life and if it's a mistake then it's a terrible thing but the world doesn't yet have a foolproof lie detector. Maybe convicts should be given the option of euthanasia if they feel that they can't face the rest of their life in the slammer, I'm damn sure I'd take that way out if i was wrongly sent down forever.

( I take it we are talking about murderers here and not having capital punishment for driving offences?  :confused:)
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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2009, 07:05:23 PM »

Capital punishment doesn't work, apart from allowing some sort of revenge for those who enjoy blood lust. It obviously doesn't deter in the US, seeing as the murder rate there is many times elsewhere in the civilised world

There is the old argument that " why should convicted murderers have a free TV for life, paid for by us", but to be honest, that?s the price you pay for living in a non feudal country.

State sanctioned murder is as worse, if not more so than from a criminal. I do admit to sometimes wondering what the point is of keeping a particularly nasty piece of work alive, however..I still don't think I would be comfortable ever agreeing with it

There are enough cases of miscarriages of justice to convince me that no one should be killed to satisfy those bible waving red necks

Quote
( I take it we are talking about murderers here and not having capital punishment for driving offences?  )

I would state an exception to the person who nearly ran into me this morning whilst talking on his mobile
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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 12:46:52 AM »

I'm against it. Honestly I think it's "too good for them".

Killing another human is a repugnant act unless there is absolutly no other choice as in self defence or in protecting someone from being killed by someone else.

IMO a life of hard labor would be better. Unfortunalty that would fall too much under "cruel and unusual punnishment" to last long. Just regular labor at least. Something that would help the prison cover expences anyway.

But kill them?

No.

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deBauch

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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2009, 02:18:10 AM »

Nobody has the right to take another persons life, its state sponsored murder, but if you are going to do it, do it properly and bring back live broadcasted fight to the death Gladiatorial contests.  It should also be made interactive, something along the lines of Death Idol and pan national bouts to see who has the craziest loons. 

Fucked up categories could also be introduced, suggestions from the public like old school jousting, fancy dress or fight to the death with eggs whisks and cheese graters.
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thekid65

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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2009, 07:25:27 AM »

You all talk about vengeance/revenge like it's a bad thing? And, nobody has the right to take another life, etc..etc..etc. I've used an argument with deB on this before, so I'll try it on you'all to see what the response will be (especially those that are against the death penalty).

I give you this hypothetical:

You walk in your home after an evening out to find your daughter/son a bloody corpse, and some whacko on top of her/him. At that point, would you not become judge/jury and executioner? Yes, methinks you would, especially if you had a convenient means to do so (ie, baseball bat/gun within reach).

Now if your answer was yes to the above, what's the difference between that, and something that the state would do (save for the fact the state would take years, and 100's of thousands of dollars to get the same result).

There is absolutely nothing wrong with revenge, or "blood lust". Face it, you punch me in the nose, I'm gonna punch you right back. Simple as.

This recent case in my neck of the woods makes me sick

The motherfucker has no business being allowed to live, period. But yet he was spared the death penalty out of concern to the young girl who remained alive, and the prosecutors did not want to put her through the agony of reliving the event on the witness stand.

Ender has a valid point, IMO..in correctly stating that if our prisons were less "humane", maybe I wouldnt be as strong in my support for the death penalty.

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Angelica

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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2009, 07:52:03 AM »

Ender has a valid point, IMO..in correctly stating that if our prisons were less "humane", maybe I wouldnt be as strong in my support for the death penalty.

That really is not true, if you are going to kill, you are going to kill.  Texas has the worst prison system in the US..they do not allow any of the accoutrements that are allowed in many of the federal and state prisons, yet those motherfuckers down there kill without impunity regardless of the law.  You kill, be prepared to give up your life.

Why is it when a person murders, everyone seems to want to justify it; broken home, abused as a youth, yadda yadda yadda, but if you ask for justice for your murdered loved one, all of sudden you are the monster....I don't understand that logic.

I love anti-death penalty people, their reason for doing away with capital punishment is: "No one has the right to kill another", so tell me, what gives that piece of shit the right to kill anyone?
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thekid65

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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2009, 08:06:43 AM »

Holy fuck.. Angel and I almost agree on an issue?

I guess my point was, if these fuckers truly suffered in prison then I would feel a bit better about these "life sentences"

As to the case I linked to in my post, I'm truly hoping for a bit of "prison justice" here.
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deBauch

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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2009, 08:38:36 AM »

I love anti-death penalty people, their reason for doing away with capital punishment is: "No one has the right to kill another", so tell me, what gives that piece of shit the right to kill anyone?

No ones got that right, not in my book.

I also wonder what it must feel like when you are just about to be executed and you are completely innocent ?  What a fucking pisser.  That has happened countless times down through history and will continue to happen.

Anyway, define "death". 

Death to me would be stuck in an iron box knowing that I was going to die there.  Its one of the most fundamental human instincts to be free.  People have gone to extraordinary lengths to escape imprisonment because it goes completely against the grain to be banged up.  It must completely drain your soul.

When you kill someone they gain instant freedom of sorts.  They certainly don't have to spend forever rotting away in reflection. 

Prison conditions are bullshit though.  I'd go for hard labour with solitary confinement when not labouring.
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deBauch

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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2009, 08:40:21 AM »

Holy fuck.. Angel and I almost agree on an issue?


Whats it been ?  Three fucking years  :confused:


 :fireworks: :fireworks: :fireworks: :fireworks:
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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2009, 09:03:54 AM »


Whats it been ?  Three fucking years  :confused:


 :fireworks: :fireworks: :fireworks: :fireworks:

Closer to 4..just sayin'  :grin:
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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2009, 10:23:54 AM »

against.
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PersephoneTopic starter

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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2009, 10:27:57 AM »

I didn't say the convicted party had the "right" to murder anyone, and of COURSE I would immediately wig out and want revenge on anyone who harmed a loved one. That's why they don't let family members on the jury.

"Revenge" isn't "justice." I'm sorry, I just don't agree with revenge as a means of keeping the peace in any kind of civilized society. As I said in my initial post, just one wrongly executed person is one too many.
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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2009, 10:31:29 AM »

So is one wrongly convicted person of a less heinous crime than murder, and spends 10 years in prison. That's too many too. But it's our system, and for the most part, it works.

Also, as technology increases (ie, DNA evidence/analysis) the chances of mistakes will be greatly reduced.
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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2009, 10:33:02 AM »

Much as I'm sure I'd want to personally peel and torture anyone who hurt my kids, that doesn't make it okay, at least not to me. I can't justify the taking of a human life under any circumstances. It's certainly not going to bring my children back, or negate what they went through, and that would be the only thing I really wanted.
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deBauch

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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2009, 11:41:15 AM »

Also, as technology increases (ie, DNA evidence/analysis) the chances of mistakes will be greatly reduced.


That will make the innocent guy that's about to be injected feel that bit more special  :confused:
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Quote from: Marquis deBlois after reading his death sentence before being guilloteened
"You made three spelling mistakes"

Gabbadonkadonk

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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2009, 12:32:00 PM »

For those who freely admit it or where the evidence is overwhelming without one iota of doubt, I am for it.  And I am for it to take place immediately, not 10 years of appeals. 

For the others, they get a cell and 3 meals a day.  No TV, no weights room or basketball court.  They get to waste away in a cell.  If they don't like the conditions, then do not do crime or remove yourself from situations where crime might occur.

I like the prison head honcho in Arizona who makes prisoners wear pink and work for food and several other things.  I'll try to find a link.
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I want to be the kind of woman that when my feet hit
the ground each morning the devil says,
"OH SHIT, SHE'S UP"!

Violator

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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2009, 06:40:07 PM »

Quote
about vengeance/revenge
Hell, if this was all it took, then half the city of Houston would be dead at my hands alone...

Feelings...they fuck everything up.
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\/ i () | /\ t () r-Elite Commando Procrastinator, trained in Deadly Arts of Coffee Breaks and Assassin Linguist of the Water Cooler Conversation. The worlds First and only Inactivist of the Radical Status Quo. Re-animated Hypothetical Carnivore Phalanx of the Undead.

Brimstone Jack

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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2009, 08:48:49 PM »

My unwaivering view on the death penalty is that there are people who shouldn't be allowed the blessing of continued existence. I also believe receiving free room and board for life is not an acceptable punishment for rapists, child abusers, and murderers.
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AZtucson

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Re: The Death Penalty
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2009, 09:48:11 PM »

I haven't worked out all the details on my thoughts about this subject, but my gut reaction to the question was "some people just need to be fried."

Green River Killer - Gary Ridgeway - admitted to 48 murders and the actual number could be in the 70's.

Ted Bundy - a whole shitload too.

BTK - Bind, Torture, Kill prick from Omaha I think.  That sadistic fuck should have been drawn and quartered.

More later...
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