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princess of ptTopic starter

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Paranormal Discussion
« on: October 24, 2008, 09:10:45 PM »

I've decided to break this off into it's own discussion aside from UFO's and extraterrestrials, as it seemed fitting.

My belief in the paranormal things I DO know something about doesn't stem from what somebody 'want's me to believe' or from urban legends,or from TV shows on the SciFi Channel..Like most Paranormal people,my interest stems from what I have expirianced personally..There is an old saying "A skeptic is just a person who hasn't had an expiriance yet" I think that's prolly true because I've always tried to take a non-New age fluffy bullshit,pseudo science view of these things...BUT......

Have you ever had an invisible being throw a can of coffee at you? I have.....You know,you can always blow off things you hear or even things you see sometimes because yes-your mind can play tricks on you...But when the shit starts getting physical---that's kinda hard to just pretend it was swamp gas or a damn trick of the light-knowwhatImean?

Can I PROVE this event to you? Nope.....Do I give a shit what you think? Nope.....

~I just want to know WTF happened to me...Cuz the shit was weird....~


I am a skeptic by nature. You're right, I have never experienced anything of the paranormal nature, nor have I ever known anyone else of close relation to have either.

What makes the concept extremely difficult for me to believe or buy into, is that there is not a shred of scientific evidence to ever explain these experiences and they tend to mostly occur when a person is by themselves.

If there was or is indeed the existence of paranormal incidences or even an absolute paradoxical way that dimensional time travel is possible, why do these situations not happen on a more frequent basis?

Considering the size of earths population and its history of species; how come nobody ever sees a tyrannosaurus lumbering through their living room? Why has nobody ever seen a pterodactyl swoop down out of the sky and abscond with their lawn jockey?

These things just don't ever add up for me.  :vc:     
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Re: Paranormal Discussion
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2008, 02:37:30 PM »

I've decided to break this off into it's own discussion aside from UFO's and extraterrestrials, as it seemed fitting.

I am a skeptic by nature. You're right, I have never experienced anything of the paranormal nature, nor have I ever known anyone else of close relation to have either.

You may be in the minority there Princess..Seems every other person I talk to has some kind of wierd story to tell..Taking the ghost phenomenon for instance..These type of encounters are so fleeting and so quick you don't even really have time to think about it...I can speak from personal experience that when something like that happens,it's not like Scooby Doo where you're screaming and running around but rather standing there perplexed trying to do everything you can to convince yourself you really didn't just see---what you just saw..I wonder how many people really do experience things and just blow it off thinking it was something totally explainable..

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What makes the concept extremely difficult for me to believe or buy into, is that there is not a shred of scientific evidence to ever explain these experiences

Depends on what you would accept as Scientific evidence...Investigators have collected tons of evidence over the years but the problem is it's never 'repeatable' evidence which is what Scientists look for..Paranormal events by their very nature are fleeting and do not preform on command..It's doesn't help matters that main stream Science abandoned Parapsychology decades ago and has now pretty much left amateur investigators to carry their torch..The Plumber guys on Ghost Hunters being a prime example..

Now there's nothing necessarily wrong with amateur Scientists..Amateur Astronomers  find comets all the time..Indeed many Scinetific discoveries are made by guys in their basements instead PHDs in a lab somewhere..BUT,if you're looking for hard core Science,forget it...Most of these people operate on the basis of hearsay and not proven scientific fact.."Well-Joe Bob on TV said if you stick a magnomegameter in a room and it goes off while you are asking questions that means a ghost is present"..Problem is a lot of these people who are into paranormal investigation because it's the fad of the day really don't know what they are doing,BUT that doesn't mean all their finding should be discounted offhand..Just means you gotta take it with a grain of salt.Will we be able to solve all these mysteries with conventional Science? Probably not in our lifetimes..I just don't think modern day science is up to the task..


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and they tend to mostly occur when a person is by themselves.

Not necessarily....

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If there was or is indeed the existence of paranormal incidences or even an absolute paradoxical way that dimensional time travel is possible, why do these situations not happen on a more frequent basis?

Why don't giant asteroids strike the earth on a more frequent basis? We know ball lightning is a real phenomenon but have you ever seen it? I haven't..I've never even seen it caught on film yet that I'm aware off..Just because something might be very rare doesn't mean it doesn't exist...

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Considering the size of earths population and its history of species; how come nobody ever sees a tyrannosaurus lumbering through their living room?

I DID see that once!  Um-I don't think that counts though..It was one of those nights...  :elle:



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Why has nobody ever seen a pterodactyl swoop down out of the sky and abscond with their lawn jockey?

Actually a pterodactyl type creature has been reported in the jungles of Papua New Guinea..Is it really there? Who knows? I imagine sometimes a story is just a story..Could be Bushpig in a hang glider too...

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These things just don't ever add up for me.  :vc:

They aren't supposed to..That's why they call it the paranormal..But don't ever let anybody try to tell you there's anything weird about having an interest in these things..Remember,paranormal events really speak to some much larger questions..If it can be proven we have been visited by craft from another world that proves we aren't alone in the universe..If somebody can prove in the existence of ghosts,they have also just proven there is life after death..I mean the paranormal is something meant to have fun with but on the other hand these aren't trivial questions...

~Personally,I think it's a lot stranger not to have any interest in it at all~
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princess of ptTopic starter

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Re: Paranormal Discussion
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 02:28:14 AM »

You may be in the minority there Princess..Seems every other person I talk to has some kind of wierd story to tell..Taking the ghost phenomenon for instance..These type of encounters are so fleeting and so quick you don't even really have time to think about it...I can speak from personal experience that when something like that happens,it's not like Scooby Doo where you're screaming and running around but rather standing there perplexed trying to do everything you can to convince yourself you really didn't just see---what you just saw..I wonder how many people really do experience things and just blow it off thinking it was something totally explainable..

Undoubtedly my skepticism is driven by the unrelenting god delusion forced down my throat as a child and my resulting passion to rationalize everything into a tidy and logical explanation or conclusion. If it is not tangible or can't be theorized in a manner relative to physics, I just cant wrap my mind around it. 

Depends on what you would accept as Scientific evidence...Investigators have collected tons of evidence over the years but the problem is it's never 'repeatable' evidence which is what Scientists look for..Paranormal events by their very nature are fleeting and do not preform on command..It's doesn't help matters that main stream Science abandoned Parapsychology decades ago and has now pretty much left amateur investigators to carry their torch..The Plumber guys on Ghost Hunters being a prime example..

See, the fact that legitimate scientists have abandoned the study of paranormal occurrence, coupled with a priest being called in to excise demons, just dispels every notion of parapsychology for me. Even the word is debunking to its self; "para" psychology. It's an informal study of what?

That coupled with the fact that I frequently am exposed to people who have suffered brain injuries like subdural hematoma's and can carry on entire conversations with the count from sesame street, whom they think has materialized beside them. It kinda detracts from me allowing myself to fathom the existence of unexplainable entities.

Now there's nothing necessarily wrong with amateur Scientists..Amateur Astronomers  find comets all the time..Indeed many Scinetific discoveries are made by guys in their basements instead PHDs in a lab somewhere..BUT,if you're looking for hard core Science,forget it...Most of these people operate on the basis of hearsay and not proven scientific fact.."Well-Joe Bob on TV said if you stick a magnomegameter in a room and it goes off while you are asking questions that means a ghost is present"..Problem is a lot of these people who are into paranormal investigation because it's the fad of the day really don't know what they are doing,BUT that doesn't mean all their finding should be discounted offhand..Just means you gotta take it with a grain of salt.Will we be able to solve all these mysteries with conventional Science? Probably not in our lifetimes..I just don't think modern day science is up to the task..

I beg to differ, refer to above.  :vc:

Not necessarily....

Why don't giant asteroids strike the earth on a more frequent basis?

because billions of years have passed since the big bang occurred and all the really giant earth threatening asteroids are generally stuck in the kuiper belt that orbits the outer skirts of our universe, for starters.

We know ball lightning is a real phenomenon but have you ever seen it? I haven't..I've never even seen it caught on film yet that I'm aware off..Just because something might be very rare doesn't mean it doesn't exist...

i think i've seen it reproduced in a lab setting, but not in nature.


They aren't supposed to..That's why they call it the paranormal..But don't ever let anybody try to tell you there's anything weird about having an interest in these things..Remember,paranormal events really speak to some much larger questions..If it can be proven we have been visited by craft from another world that proves we aren't alone in the universe..If somebody can prove in the existence of ghosts,they have also just proven there is life after death..I mean the paranormal is something meant to have fun with but on the other hand these aren't trivial questions...

~Personally,I think it's a lot stranger not to have any interest in it at all~

Meh, I think we all have differentiating interests. Mine just don't include anything relative to things you can find referenced in biblical writings.  :grin:
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Nele Gambino T~D~T

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Re: Paranormal Discussion
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2008, 07:29:17 PM »

Undoubtedly my skepticism is driven by the unrelenting god delusion forced down my throat as a child and my resulting passion to rationalize everything into a tidy and logical explanation or conclusion. If it is not tangible or can't be theorized in a manner relative to physics, I just cant wrap my mind around it.

Well,now right there you are making a distinction between spirituallity and religeon..I can't blame you at all for having a disdain for modern religon because I do too ..Religeon is just politics..Always has been..The name of God has been used to start more wars and cause more suffering then any other excuse since man fell down from the trees,but does that mean there IS no God? I dunno..Not necessarily...

You,my lovely AB only had to put up with Cathoilics as a kid but I was raised in a Baptitst family...SOUTHERN Baptitst family,so believe me I know full well what religeous ignorance can do to the human brain but still,I try not to be cynical about it..I can't believe that if there is a supreme being he is some old John McCain looking fucker,sitting on a throne,breathing fire,and dealing out judgement on everyone he doesn't like..On the other hand,I have just as much problem with the secular humanist belief that the entire universe,with all it's magnificence and intricasies,was just a big old cosmic fart..

Yes-the Bible is a silly piece of shit for the most part..But I think the Bible was just a very flawed piece of---literature--meant to explain something that can't be explained..I mean,could an ameoba explain how a moon rocket works? Nope..So how could a bunch of talking monkies explain a being capable of creating a universe? I don't think that's possible..

Quote
See, the fact that legitimate scientists have abandoned the study of paranormal occurrence, coupled with a priest being called in to excise demons, just dispels every notion of parapsychology for me. Even the word is debunking to its self; "para" psychology. It's an informal study of what?

Well-that's not altogether true..I actually worded that poorly..There are quite a few legitimate scientists who study the paranormal but they just aren't getting the backing from their universities anymore..Now I could direct you to Lloyd Aurbauck's website or some sites of some of the other old school parapsycholigists that could explain the history better then I..The cliff note's version basically is,though,main stream science,like most other arts in our lifetime turned into a business.Research just for the sake of research is getting more and more rare now a days and in the field of the paranormal,the powers that be in science just felt they had run up against a brick wall..Does this mean there is nothing to it? I don't think so..As I said,I just don't think we are at a level in our science to understand or explore these things fully..Think about it..100 years ago the concept of PCs or the internet would have been so alien nobody from that age wouldn't have had a clue what you were talking about if you tried to explain it to them...That doesn't mean you can't send me a titty pic in my e-mail today though does it? hehehehehe

Quote
That coupled with the fact that I frequently am exposed to people who have suffered brain injuries like subdural hematoma's and can carry on entire conversations with the count from sesame street, whom they think has materialized beside them. It kinda detracts from me allowing myself to fathom the existence of unexplainable entities.

Oh,can't disagree with you there either..There are plenty of nut jobs who are into the paranormal. As well as crooks who are just trying to make money and some who are just trying to get attention..That's why someone like me who is HONESTLY trying to find out why these mysteries occour welcome skeptics like you into the discussion..You keep us honest and help us weed out the bullshit..You want to know what Parapsychology is IMO? It's the HONEST investigation of phenominon with no agenda,no pretense,just a desire to know what happened..Notice I have never ran around with some kind of banner tied around my neck claiming "I SAW A GHOST-IT'S REAL!" All I have ever said is some strange things have happened to me and I want to know WTF it was.In you field,if a patient comes in and sez 'Doctor,I have a pain in my chest..I think I have lung cancer'..It's not the doctors job to 'prove' the patients claim that they have lung cancer,nor is it the Doctor's to to blow the patient off and tell him,"Oh you just a crazy whiner,why don't you go stick your cock up your ass and fuck yourself". It's the Doctor's job to find out what is really wrong with him..Hopefully it isn't lung cancer and something harmless like indigestion or something..A Paranormal investigator worth his salt isn't trying to 'prove' a clients claim of a haunting,but simply trying to find out exactly what the client is expiriancing..Again,hopefully,the banging ghost is just air in the pipes or something..

.A desire to attain knowledge and solve mysteries seems more logical to me then simply shutting my mind of to anything I see that doesn't fit into my own little comfortable view of life..Seems to me that what most of 'main stream' Science does these days..Personally,I hope they get over it..



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because billions of years have passed since the big bang occurred and all the really giant earth threatening asteroids are generally stuck in the kuiper belt that orbits the outer skirts of our universe, for starters.

Exactly....The universe is a big damn place...Tell me though..If it's so infrequent that a damn rock from right outside the orbit of Mars should visit the earth,how do you figgure that proves that UFOs or Ghosts have never been here since they have MUCH father to travel....Interesting thought huh? (BTW-The Kuiper belt is actually home to COMETS,not asteroids..Most large asteroids are trapped in the gravitational belt between Jupiter and Mars-just so you know-Ms Science Chick :wink:)

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i think i've seen it reproduced in a lab setting, but not in nature.

Hell I saw I chick fake an orgasm in a lab setting..What difference does that make?

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Meh, I think we all have differentiating interests. Mine just don't include anything relative to things you can find referenced in biblical writings.  :grin:

I never saw the Bible talk about UFOs or Bigfoot.It talks about spirits a little..Actually,the bible talks about sex more then any other damn subject...Now since when did you have no interest in that? HAHAHAHA

~Happy Helloween Princess-Im goin Ghost Hunting,wish me luck~
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Nele Gambino T~D~T

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Re: Paranormal Discussion
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2008, 09:27:19 PM »

Yeah Princess,I got a new cell phone today..I can't even figure out how to put a pic of my cat on it as the screensaver but I'll tell you what,I'll go out tonight and figure out what GOD AND THE AFTERLIFE is for ya..........HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... :huh: :stir: :confused:
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princess of ptTopic starter

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Re: Paranormal Discussion
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2008, 09:59:11 PM »

Well,now right there you are making a distinction between spirituallity and religeon..I can't blame you at all for having a disdain for modern religon because I do too ..Religeon is just politics..Always has been..The name of God has been used to start more wars and cause more suffering then any other excuse since man fell down from the trees,but does that mean there IS no God? I dunno..Not necessarily...
Scientifically, there is a "god". It's called the sun. It's not a being, it's an object and without it our solar system would be kapusta. It heats us, keeps us spinning so we don't fall off the earth, and drives our climate so we don't freeze to death or burn up into dust, it's magnetic field also protects us somewhat.  :vc:

You,my lovely AB only had to put up with Cathoilics as a kid but I was raised in a Baptitst family...SOUTHERN Baptitst family,so believe me I know full well what religeous ignorance can do to the human brain but still,I try not to be cynical about it..I can't believe that if there is a supreme being he is some old John McCain looking fucker,sitting on a throne,breathing fire,and dealing out judgement on everyone he doesn't like..On the other hand,I have just as much problem with the secular humanist belief that the entire universe,with all it's magnificence and intricasies,was just a big old cosmic fart..

This is better left for another thread, but I will offer this; What is wrong with the concept of "just a big old cosmic fart"? I think it is somewhat megalomaniacal and obdurate to have to always attribute anything we can not fully comprehend, explain, theorize competently about, or even hypothesize accurately over; to a higher "being" or another "entity" being responsible for whatever the case may be.
 
Yes-the Bible is a silly piece of shit for the most part..But I think the Bible was just a very flawed piece of---literature--meant to explain something that can't be explained..I mean,could an ameoba explain how a moon rocket works? Nope..So how could a bunch of talking monkies explain a being capable of creating a universe? I don't think that's possible..

Well, because it isn't possible. Monkeys don't have opposable thumbs, they can't manipulate a pencil as well as we can.  :vc:
I'm sure whomever sat down and penned a "bible" had really good intentions. Over time, the smarter people started to question the philosophies/rules which probably indirectly hindered society and when people stopped believing in why they were expected to follow these "rules", new shit about god damning you for not believing was inserted (the early stages of the GOP no doubt). It is the nature of all things living to fear the unknown. Fight or flight, yes? Someone figured that shit out early and bastardized it to their advantage and it just evolved from there.
 
Well-that's not altogether true..I actually worded that poorly..There are quite a few legitimate scientists who study the paranormal but they just aren't getting the backing from their universities anymore..Now I could direct you to Lloyd Aurbauck's website or some sites of some of the other old school parapsycholigists that could explain the history better then I..The cliff note's version basically is,though,main stream science,like most other arts in our lifetime turned into a business.Research just for the sake of research is getting more and more rare now a days and in the field of the paranormal,the powers that be in science just felt they had run up against a brick wall..Does this mean there is nothing to it? I don't think so..As I said,I just don't think we are at a level in our science to understand or explore these things fully..Think about it..100 years ago the concept of PCs or the internet would have been so alien nobody from that age wouldn't have had a clue what you were talking about if you tried to explain it to them...That doesn't mean you can't send me a titty pic in my e-mail today though does it? hehehehehe

I feel that there were many explanations that were simple enough to explain certain phenomena and that mainstream really doesn't have a need to explore occurrences that are few and far between and are usually manufactured. There are some really important things like disease, energy, famine, etc. that need to be studied. Paranormal phenomenon is almost recreational in comparison.

Oh,can't disagree with you there either..There are plenty of nut jobs who are into the paranormal. As well as crooks who are just trying to make money and some who are just trying to get attention..That's why someone like me who is HONESTLY trying to find out why these mysteries occour welcome skeptics like you into the discussion..You keep us honest and help us weed out the bullshit..You want to know what Parapsychology is IMO? It's the HONEST investigation of phenominon with no agenda,no pretense,just a desire to know what happened..Notice I have never ran around with some kind of banner tied around my neck claiming "I SAW A GHOST-IT'S REAL!" All I have ever said is some strange things have happened to me and I want to know WTF it was.In you field,if a patient comes in and sez 'Doctor,I have a pain in my chest..I think I have lung cancer'..It's not the doctors job to 'prove' the patients claim that they have lung cancer,nor is it the Doctor's to to blow the patient off and tell him,"Oh you just a crazy whiner,why don't you go stick your cock up your ass and fuck yourself". It's the Doctor's job to find out what is really wrong with him..Hopefully it isn't lung cancer and something harmless like indigestion or something..A Paranormal investigator worth his salt isn't trying to 'prove' a clients claim of a haunting,but simply trying to find out exactly what the client is expiriancing..Again,hopefully,the banging ghost is just air in the pipes or something..

Eeks. How shall I put this diplomatically? Doctors are people who study the intricacies of human body. For the most part all bodies work on the same plain. When something doesn't work, then a doctor investigates why it isn't working and tries to fix it. Much like an auto mechanic. If your car doesn't start or is leaking oil, the mechanic is educated or experienced to look at the situation or the symptoms and try to repair them. A parapsychologist studies an uncertain science that hasn't much tangible "material" to study from. It's not an "exact" science per se. It's highly based on subjective perception, unless there is an inordinate amount of "ectoplasmic goo" being left behind by the "supernatural" that I am unaware of or some other sort of evidence you can collect and catalog for me to juggle, I really can't empathize with the study of paranormal activity seriously. 

.A desire to attain knowledge and solve mysteries seems more logical to me then simply shutting my mind of to anything I see that doesn't fit into my own little comfortable view of life..Seems to me that what most of 'main stream' Science does these days..Personally,I hope they get over it..

I don't feel scientists are as narrow minded as you perceive. Like I said above, if you can not produce anything substantive or tangible, what is there left to study?? It's sort of like telling your mechanic "my car makes this noise, fix it." the mechanic will follow up with questions like "when does this noise usually occur? where does the noise sound like it is coming from? does the noise happen when it is hot or cold, etc. etc" The study of paranormal activity doesn't have consistent answers to even the basic questions like that. The lack of consistent trends coupled with the absence of material evidence, makes it a study that hardly seems plausible.


Exactly....The universe is a big damn place...Tell me though..If it's so infrequent that a damn rock from right outside the orbit of Mars should visit the earth,how do you figgure that proves that UFOs or Ghosts have never been here since they have MUCH father to travel....

I'll start with UFO's. The probability of intelligible life existing in our universe and us not being aware of it, in conjunction with the technologies we have presently that denote nothing detectable beside the usual space content, tells me nothing has landed here since at least when Galileo was peering into the skies in the 1500's.

That notion, coupled with the current studies of humans and space travel and our goal of establishing colonies on other planets and the detriment incurred on humans and other life forms being displaced from their accustomed environment for increasingly longer periods of time, also tells me that anything trying to visit us will likely be too far away to survive the trip.

Ghosts are detached retinas, seismic activities, or some physiologic/psychiatric reaction to a human as far as I know.

Interesting thought huh? (BTW-The Kuiper belt is actually home to COMETS,not asteroids..Most large asteroids are trapped in the gravitational belt between Jupiter and Mars-just so you know-Ms Science Chick :wink:)
The kuiper belt isnt just limited to "comets", silly. If you want to get technical, it's called "icy debris" and is theoretically primordial solar particles left over from when the planets formed. Not enough is known about it's contents because we havent actually gotten close enough to it to image it's contents or use spectroscopy to identify what the contents are. trust me a ghost came to me and told me so.  :vc:

I never saw the Bible talk about UFOs or Bigfoot.It talks about spirits a little..Actually,the bible talks about sex more then any other damn subject...Now since when did you have no interest in that? HAHAHAHA
Well, no the bible doesnt talk about ufo's or big foot, BUT it does refer to some Jew being sacrificed on a cross and thrown in a cave dead, only to walk around a few days later like nothing happened and he wasn't riddled with vengeance like anybody else named jesus would be present day, hehehe! It also refers to things like the immaculate conception and Mary getting knocked up by a "spirit"...
 
~Happy Helloween Princess-Im goin Ghost Hunting,wish me luck~

Save me some peanut m&m's, damnit!
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Re: Paranormal Discussion
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2008, 09:52:30 AM »

I'm with pop on this.

Take Alien abductions, why are most reports in the USA?

Why would Aliens just focus mainly on the most well armed nation and the one with one of the most sophisticated survelance systems?

Not saying aliens dont exist but like paranormal you never get joint abductions, meaning more than one person at a time.
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